When Life Calls: Zack’s Story of Stepping Up for Family and Changing the Caregiving Conversation

Zack Demopoulos’s story begins with his upbringing as the proud son of Greek immigrants, whose journey to the United States instilled in him a deep sense of gratitude, resilience, and responsibility. He shares how his family’s experiences shaped his values and work ethic, from working in his father’s restaurant as a teenager to pursuing higher education and a successful corporate career. Zack’s life took a dramatic turn in 2006 when he was suddenly thrust into the role of caregiver for his father after a major stroke, all while balancing a demanding job and a young family of his own.

Throughout the episode, Zack candidly discusses the emotional, logistical, and financial challenges of caregiving, including the complexities of sibling dynamics and the importance of open communication and planning. He reflects on the mistakes and lessons learned during his father’s illness, such as the need to involve siblings, have difficult end-of-life conversations, and seek out resources—even when they seem limited. Zack’s journey didn’t end with his father; he later became a key support for his mother, applying the hard-earned wisdom from his earlier experiences to ensure her well-being and dignity.

Now, Zack channels his expertise and empathy into advocacy for working caregivers. Drawing on his background in HR, home care, and personal caregiving, he collaborates with his partner Selma to develop resources and support systems for employees balancing work and caregiving responsibilities. Zack’s story is a testament to the resilience of caregivers and the critical need for greater awareness, support, and compassion in both families and workplaces.

About Zack:

Zack Demopoulos along with his partner Selma Archer founded ieadvocates llc, or Invisible Employee Advocates, a consulting firm created to support working caregivers by working with their employers.   He has over 36 years of diverse experience working in the corporate and small business environments. His expertise spans across sales management; executive leadership; human resources; diversity, equity, and inclusion; small business; board leadership; and caregiving.  Zack along with his wife Phyllis founded and operated a home care agency for 13 years, helping over 500 families care for their family loved ones, and hiring over 700 professional caregivers to provide that care. 

Zack is a caregiver advocate as well as a caregiver--long distance for his mother who is in a nursing home in Charlotte NC.  He commutes 1-2 x every four months to spend time with her and be her advocate.  

Zack with his wife, Phyllis, reside in New Jersey and spend significant time with their family who live nearby and include 2 rescue dogs, three adult children, their spouses, and 3 grandchildren.

Thank you to sponsor: CareScout

Transcript

Natalie: 0:03

Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the Confessions of a reluctant caregiver. Podcast. On the show, you'll hear caregivers confessing the good, the bad and the completely unexpected. You're guaranteed to relate, be inspired. Lead with helpful tips and resources, and, of course, laugh. Now let's get to today's confession. Hey, Jay, good morning. Good morning. You know it's summer in the US, but I'm going to tell you right now, it's chilly outside, and I wasn't expecting that I've decided to pull out my long sleeves. And also, if you're not watching on our YouTube channel, also look like an episode of Where's Waldo. And so this is my Waldo shirt.

JJ: 0:51

Scary, because this morning, I almost wore a striped shirt. And when I got all this word and I was like, if she and I both had on, oh my god, it

Natalie: 0:59

would have been bad. Also, doubles as a candy cane. Look.

Unknown: 1:03

This is our Christmas episode.

Natalie: 1:05

Welcome to Christmas in August. You know what? We have the best person like, you know he's my best friend. Um, come on. Don't know he's been my best friend for years, and when we met him at the beginning, like this is like Zach has been with us since we really started, and he was, remember that time he was in a cast, yeah, thing, and he's like, 1000 feet tall, again, he's 1000 feet tall, and he's an icon. He is. I mean, honestly, everybody knows him, and to be able to finally get him on the podcast. We cornered him. He had no free will. You know, clearly we were like, Dude, you got to come on our podcast. We love you. You want to let him talk? What do you think? I guess we can. And this falls under the same episode of, it's a boy. Let me do it. It's a boy. It is a boy. And I love forgivers, yeah, because the reality is, is that there's just, there's lots of male caregivers out there. And I think, again, like most general care caregivers in general, they're underrepresented. And so and men are taking care of loved ones just as much as the females are. And they're, they're on their way up because, because you have to some days. And so this is what we're going to talk about today. And so we're going to get I'm so excited that Zach's here. So Jay, tell everybody about our bestie.

JJ: 2:27

Zach, all right, this is my bestie. Zach, so first of all, I get to say because I get to talk. I love our guest today. And Natalie, get ready because he's my care crush. You know you have, like, professional crush. Zach is my care crush, and I can say that because I know his wife, Phyllis, and she's like, whatever you're gonna love me. Phyllis, hey, Phyllis, so we're talking to Zach demopoulos today. So Zach is, like, Natalie said he's one of the first people that we met and heard, because you'll hear Zach like he's here, his radio announcer. He was the one of the what was the first care conference that we were at, and since then, Zach, you have been a resource, but you've you've been a mentor, but you're an amazing friend, and you're a champion for us, and we really appreciate that. So of course, Zach has a story like everyone else that we talked to in 2006 he was drafted into caregiving for his father in less than three minutes. Like many of us in a crisis today, he continues the role with his 95 year old mother. I've shortened these Natalie so I'm not telling

Natalie: 3:31

the whole story, because we already told it so much. I'm sorry. Bye, bye. He's had

JJ: 3:35

a diverse professional background, from corporate positions to co founding and operating a home care agency for 13 years with his wife. One thing that remains constant, Zach is a huge care advocate. You'll see that what he does today and well, basically I say, You're a force to be reckoned with, Zach, we are so excited to have you. The crowd goes wild.

Unknown: 3:56

Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Man. What an intro. Gee, I'm gonna say that and listen to that when I'm having bad days. How's that?

JJ: 4:07

Oh, yeah. We can add music, a clapping band or something, whatever you want.

Unknown: 4:12

Yeah, but I gotta tell you something. I was listening to that I was this, I was thinking of this striped sandwich, you know, if you were wearing striped shirt. JJ, and we know now he's wearing a striped shirt, if you're watching this on YouTube, and I'm in the middle, we're talking about a striped Greek utero sandwich, because I'm right in the middle. And that that, that is what's in my mind right now. So it might take a lot for me to get that out of my mind.

Natalie: 4:34

It's okay. It's okay. Now I'm just, I'm gonna stick with my candy cane. I'm gonna be thinking about fall weather, and then better, then I'm like, Oh, it's cold, but, you

Unknown: 4:43

know, I'm also thinking about Greek food for lunch. Thanks, right? Well,

Natalie: 4:48

thank you. This is really awesome, though, where, because I'm glad that you mentioned your Greek. I love that. I mean, that's this, like, we're going to talk about, like, really, this is my favorite part, of course. Asking you tell us start from the beginning you were born. But we had the opportunity to meet Zach in person, and then we met him up in his hood, up in New Jersey, when we were visiting another friend of ours, Doreen, who we all met on LinkedIn, which is really funny. And we went to Doreen marchetti's house, and we all ate, and we ate so much food and had so much fellowship, but we get to learn more about Zach. So I think, you know, key, the cornerstone of a piece of who we are is where we come from, and to understand that, and then that really informs of who will be as adults. And I love Zach's family, and so Zach, I want you to go ahead and tell us, start from the beginning, kind of paint the picture of life and work your way up to care.

Unknown: 5:47

My parents came over in a Greek boat in 1953 they battled high seas and stormy weather. They only had a bag and$2 in their pocket. First of all, thank you so much for being here. I am, like, honored I when I met you two ladies, I thought you were nuts, and I know for sure that you are, and I love that about you, too. And thank you also, on behalf of all caregivers, on all the work you guys are doing, you are such amazing. But I I am just honored to know that you were I met you guys in the beginning, and look at you now. You guys are stars. You're lighting it up, and you're doing so much great work. Also. Thank you for shouting out male caregivers. I think that is really important. I think we males need to talk more. All right. Get out from under that rock. Get away from your pride. There are many of us out there, so thank you for that as well. Thank you for shouting out, because we do need to tell our stories. We are not alone. I see, I know you, Natalie, you like my Greek roots. So I guess I just not to, hopefully not bore your audience. But I will just briefly say, you know, I am a very proud son of Greek immigrant parents. You know, they came over, really, in the 50s, not on a boat, but they did come on a plane, but they immigrated without a word of English, and they found whatever jobs they could get. My dad was a dishwasher. My mother worked in a factory stuffing, candy, ice cream cones in boxes, you know, back before they had machinery doing that, right? Yeah. And so they struggled very hard to raise us in a in a country where we had opportunity. I know that sounds corny, but I am really, really just grateful to them. I am the youngest of three. We'll talk about siblings later. Yeah, I'm sure we'll get into sibling dynamics, and I hope my sister brother don't watch this, but we'll talk about a little bit about that, but because Greek, Greek families are so weird and so complex. But I love them. I love my Greek family. But, you know, my father and mother came into the states, actually in 72 we immigrated into Canada, and so I have a quite a diverse experience, which I'm very grateful for. I've lived over in seven different area spots. But when my father finally landed in a spot with Charlotte, North Carolina, shout out to Charlotte, where I grew up. You know, he did get a restaurant, and he did name it, Zach's, Zach's hamburgers, and it's my favorite. It's infamous, by the way, because every time I would fly to Charlotte, I'd be sitting next to somebody, and they'd ask me who I am. We'd bring up Zach's hamburgers, and I go, I've been there, so it's like infamous, you know, and but I the reason why that is so important me is I worked in a restaurant from 13 years old to 21 and I learned everything about life and business from my parents. My mother was in there, my father was in there. And maybe that's why I'm so dedicated to being a caregiver. I don't know. I mean, you know, we probably need Barry and Julie to help us with that psychoanalysis, but we shout out to Barry Julie too, by the way, but I just feel like, you know that I owe them, because what they did for me, they really, really created opportunity. I was only one of three that went to college. I remember when I was about 15 years old, I turned to my dad when I was mopping one night, and I worked about six days a week with him after school and all summer for eight years. I mean, that's what I did, and I loved it, but I remember I said to him, Dad, I can't wait to have a restaurant like you. And he said, It is stupid. Oh, you think I came all the way from Greece so you can own a restaurant is you will get an education, you're gonna get a good job, and you promise me you never, never have a restaurant. So that's why I don't have a restaurant, even though, wow, back then I do want one. So, so I became a caregiver for my dad, as you mentioned. JJ, I was drafted. You know, my father was a hard working immigrant, just like, like many of the Greeks that came over, was stubborn, never went to a doctor, and it was a miracle that he never got sick. He smoked two packs of cigarettes a day. He definitely had hypertension, probably all kind. Of other stuff, but at 78 he had his first major illness, and he had a stroke, and it was a bad one, and he fell, fell down and had a severe stroke. And my brother called me, and I'm in New Jersey, and I got one of my biggest jobs ever. This is a dream job, executive HR for the CFO of Pfizer, and I'm living the dream, and I get this phone call. I'm in the middle of a meeting with my when my boss actually I didn't take the first call, but when he called again and again, I stepped out in the hallway and my brother was crying and saying, You need to get down here. And that was a three minute phone call. Never forget, Dad's had a huge stroke. You've got to get down here. He didn't know what to do. My sister's in Canada, and I got drafted as a caregiver, and I immediately did it the very that evening, I jumped on a plane, didn't tell anybody what I was doing, except my wife, and went down there for three days. You know all about this, ladies, you know? Yeah, you got to start the minute someone gets hospitalized. You have to start planning that transition of care. You have to start thinking about discharge. I was clueless. I didn't know a thing about caregiving. I didn't know a thing about hospitalizations. I 00, knowledge. I learned it as I went baptismal by fire. Made a number, a number of mistakes, including pissing my brother and sister off. Can I say piss on the on this show? Sorry, we're clean,

Natalie: 11:19

so I'll just beep that out. Be Did you

JJ: 11:22

notice something that? Well, hold on, he he skipped a big part. We're stopping him right there. He skipped all this, all this. You had a little bit of stuff that happened before that. Like, I think you had a family in there. So I want to know, like,

Unknown: 11:35

You got

Natalie: 11:36

married, you had some kids, like, beautiful kids. I don't even know how old he was at this point, I'm thinking he just went 21 to nothing.

Unknown: 11:43

Yeah. I mean, did you leave your kid? I mean, was Phyllis taking care of the whole family?

Natalie: 11:49

Phyllis, no, and she's a powerhouse, so everybody has to know about her, yeah,

Unknown: 11:55

beautiful Greek love story. I'm married to my wife for 38 years. She was she was blind when she married me, and she obviously very desperate, and so, yeah, so we, my wife and I, Phyllis is amazing. I mean, I'm just so blessed. We're married 38 years. We have three beautiful children. There. They all have beautiful spouses. I have three grandchildren,

Natalie: 12:20

beautiful too. Thank you.

Unknown: 12:23

We're blessed. I mean, we're not perfect, by far, we're not perfect, but you know, we are blessed. And you know what? Thank you for bringing that up. Because, you know, in caregiving, I guess I got to keep bringing it back to caregiving. You know, when I jumped on that plane at night and left, you know, I didn't think about my family. I didn't think about my job. I didn't think about any of that. And for the first couple of trips, it was okay. My kids didn't really care, because they're used to dad getting on a plane and going on business trips, and Phyllis is used to it. In fact, Phyllis and I said Our marriage was really good, because she knew exactly when I was the party and

Natalie: 12:59

when I was arriving. The best relationship is when they leave.

Unknown: 13:03

That's right. In fact, there was times like winter, when's your flight leaving. I mean, I'm 55 I was like, Yes, oh my god. I mean, I think that toy was the secret of our marriages. We had, we had a lot of fun the night I left, away a lot of fun the night I came back. So it's just G rated, or is this

Natalie: 13:25

totally fine, but it's totally fine. It's that's normal, you know? But here's the question. Here's like, when you got that call, how old were the kids? Like, where were you? Because you said, from a from a professional standpoint, you're running hot. You're running hot, you're doing great stuff. You You're you're moving your career. Because, I mean, you guys are up in New Jersey, your dad and your mom and dad are down in North Carolina, or north Cathy, Lackey and and so. But how old were the kids? It gives us kind of a frame of reference, yeah. So 2006

Unknown: 13:56

December 14, is when my father, my brother called, and my father had a stroke, and my oldest is six years old. My next little middle son, Dimitri. Shout the Dimitri, he rocks. And Costa, you. He rocks. He's, uh, he was, he was three, and Anastasia's one and a half. Wow. You have little Don't, don't say that about me. Say that about Phyllis. I just left, yeah, just, you know, I went six times to Charlotte in six months, six trips in six months. I went back and forth, you know, all my expense, all my, you know, deal with it. One of those trips, Phyllis actually came down with me and to help me, because I really, I really didn't know what the hell I was doing. I'll be honest, we I, I really didn't. And Phyllis is just God said, she's just got a natural, you know, Mother caring spirit to her, and she can handle my mother, who really well the mother in law. But, you know, we went down for a whole week in one of those six trips, and we had my father walking with a cane. And we were we, you know, we had a lot of fun. You know, we made the trips to the doctors and everything with them, because my mom didn't drive. My brother ran a restaurant the whole time, so he couldn't do anything. And my sister's in Canada, so we had my father walking with a cane and everything. And I will tell you in so confessions, you know, guilt. Confessions, I'll tell you one thing, you know, after our last trip down here, I didn't go back down for three months because, I mean, I was burned out. And my job, I gotta be honest, you my boss was a little, it was, it was, he was getting a little irritated with me. You know, this was a high level job, and we had a lot of stuff going on with Pfizer. And no offense to him, because back in 2006 you know, I don't, I don't expect males to understand this. But one point he even told me, do you need to keep going down her kitchen is into something your wife

Natalie: 15:49

could do. That's not uncommon, though. And I think here's the thing, spoiler alert, probably even today, probably even today, that that comment somebody's mind mouth, I hope not. But you know, here's the other thing I want to take a break first. Break for a second because I want to come back in, but I want to ask you about I do want to continue talking about work and because you're in a you're in a position that that could potentially, potentially impact you professionally from a long term growth standpoint, as well as financially impacting your family, and what are you going to do? So we're going to take a break. We'll be right back

Unknown: 16:26

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JJ: 17:01

right, everybody, we are back with Zach. Zach, honestly, we went through the first break. I mean, I'm like, Oh my gosh. We have to talk really fast. But Zach is fantastic. So we've gotten to this point this, this is amazing, where actually your boss says, well, can't your wife do this? So I too, like Nat said, I'm amazed that, first of all, you're in an HR position, and this is kind of, this is kind of a well, why do you have to, you know? Why do you need to care? So we want to talk about that further. And then I also want to make sure we go back to you went down, made decisions, and your brother and sister were, like, not entirely, you know, excited about it. Maybe that's a little sibling, you know, interaction. Let's talk about work again. Let's go back to that. And as Natalie said, talk about the impact that it had on your career. Go ahead now well,

Natalie: 17:48

and also the fact it's 2006 how much you're using video? We're in 2025 and we're now, we're like, I mean, look, we're recording remotely like we didn't have that like, not especially in behavioral health. So what? What kind of accommodations Let's go. Let's dig a little deeper into that.

Unknown: 18:06

Okay, okay, look at JJ. She wants to get to the dirt. You know, she heard me about the sibling issues, so you want some dirt? Oh, don't worry. So I mentioned to you I felt guilt, right? So here's the reason why I felt guilt, because after I left with Phyllis that last we spent a week down there. I came back three months later, and my father had thrown his cane away. He was sitting in a wheelchair. Never got out of it again for five years, and I just felt guilt because nobody took him to appointments. No Fault to anybody in particular. It's just the systems. And to your point, we just didn't know what we didn't know at the time and and I didn't have any resources. And I'll tell you, you made a good point. I'm in freaking HR, and I didn't know where to go. And somebody actually turned to me and said, Have you called the AP? And I go, what? Because you don't, you're in HR, you didn't even know what EAP is. Always thought that that's something that you use in emergency. You're in an emergency. Zach, you're really struggling. Because I was, I really was so upset when I went down and saw my dad in a wheelchair. My mother was trying to take care of him. I'm like, I got to get them some help. And so I did call EAP and no offense to AP, or maybe a little bit of offense to AP, because you at the end of the day, they're just, yeah, yeah. I got my beef with them, you know, they could do a better job. You know, as an HR person, I will state this as a fact. It's the most underutilized, overspent benefit organizations have today. So come on, guys, we need to do a little bit better job of that we really do. And I mean, partner with the AP and so that they can, you know, really step up on the caregiving piece. I would hope it's improved since 2006 before when I hear it hasn't but when I called the AP, all they did for me was send me a list of home care agencies. There were 15 of them in North Carolina. I picked the top one. I called them blind. Didn't know what to ask. I gave them my credit card, and they basically took two weeks non refundable deposit from me. My mother fired them at. After the second day, because they insulted her, they walked in and go, Look, we're not gonna listen to you. He's our patient. We're not listening to you. And she goes, Oh yeah. Well, listen to this. Get out of my house. And so that was two weeks, and, you know, they kind of again, it would have been helpful to know what questions to ask to learn more about home care. To your point, Natalie, I had no resources to go to. And ironically, after I left Pfizer, what did I do? I went and I started a home care agency. Because of that experience, Phyllis and I ran one for 13 years so, but there weren't a lot of resources. Not many people were talking about it. Listen, you gotta understand something. I came from HR, right? And I was in HR in the late 80s, early 90s, we were battling how to deal with people leaving for maternity leave and not being discriminated against, and not being penalized and giving them benefits. I not kidding, ladies, and I know you agree. I know you you believe this. I would sit in talent planning meetings, where they would say, Well, let's take her off the the track, the career track, because she just had a child. I mean, the heck are you talking about? Are you kidding me? I mean, right off the bat, they put an X on her because she just had a child. So we've come a long way with children. We've now got to focus on on elder care as well, and adult children with with they need care. So you want to talk about siblings? Is that right?

Natalie: 21:30

JJ, Well, it's interesting that Yeah, I think we totally should talk about siblings, because that's fun. You know. Let me ask you one more question, though, did you talk about your care and the things that were going on with your colleagues at work?

Unknown: 21:45

No, no, not at all. I did not. First of all, did you get the part we were Greek immigrants. You know, we're very proud people. We don't share our laundry with anybody outside the house the family. When I did eventually hire that home care agency? My mother was embarrassed. She was afraid who was going to find out. She didn't want people coming into her house so that they could see what's going on in the house. They didn't, they didn't go back to church because they didn't want to see dad in a wheelchair. Very proud, proud people, and I was the same way as the way I was raised, very, very silent we didn't, we didn't even say, you know, I love you publicly, you know, you know to each other. So, so yeah, that that you know that I didn't tell anybody at work. In fact, you guys have met Selma, my partner, Selma Archer, she and I worked at Pfizer together. We didn't know each other's caregiver story, and here, you know, but 10 years later, we met and had a conversation. It was an hour and a half conversation. We reconnected after 10 years on LinkedIn, and she tells her caregiver story, I'm telling mine. And we looked at each other like, how come we didn't know this about each other? And we're like, I never told a soul at work. I didn't tell my boss, I didn't tell anybody in HR, except that one phone call to EAP. Wow. Now with my mother as a caregiver, a caregiver from a mother years later, I certainly have told the whole world and did podcasts about it, and I've learned a lot from my mistakes, and it like to think I'm a better caregiver from that experience.

Natalie: 23:20

Yeah, so let's talk about so you have this incident with your dad. Happen your brother calls you and was like, You're gonna have to get down here. Stat, now is Brother oldest or the sister? The oldest

Unknown: 23:31

brother is 60 months older than me, and sister is three years older than me.

Natalie: 23:35

Ah, so the girl isn't that interesting, like she moved to Canada. So what was the conversation like with you guys internally? Because Emily, JJ and I always have internal conversations, like we're talking about, what are we going to do? I mean, because I know you're talking about this stuff, like, what are we gonna do with Dad, we're gonna do with mom. Yeah, and, and what's the planning sound like, and disbursement of duties?

Unknown: 24:00

Was there a plan confession time?

Natalie: 24:05

Because sibling dynamics, you know, this is a total dumpster fire, if it, you know, siblings can be a dumpster fire. JJ, brought out her dumpster

Unknown: 24:16

you I love that term. You guys use dumpster fire. I love it. So Bessie and George, my sister and brother. Confession time, I asked for your forgiveness. I apologize. I totally did not keep you in the loop. I did not talk to you. I felt like I had this. I can handle this and and also to the priest who's listening to I really just asked for forgiveness because I really screwed up. I made, I made some, some bad mistakes, because our Dynamics before my sister and I, our dynamics are strong. I love my sister dearly, and I would do anything for her, and she took care of us. We were young kids, but she was not in a position to jump on a plane and come down here and help us out. My brother. And I have always had a rivalry. I think, ever since I grew taller than him in the 10th grade, he kind of had it out for me a little bit.

Natalie: 25:06

So he's five foot one and you're six foot 10.

Unknown: 25:10

No, no, no, no, no, but, but, you know, you get the point. You know, metaphorically, I think he's five foot one. So, so we've learned, you know, the three of us have all learned us have all learned in our caregiving experiences that including your siblings is very important, especially if the dynamics aren't there to begin with, if you're going to have a plan, which I did not, and if you're going to try to reach out and get help. So I would say the first six years of caring for helping my mother care for my father. I totally sucked at keeping my siblings. I had a lot of issues with my brother. I kept my sister out of it, thinking that she couldn't help anyway, and that made things so much worse, to the point where, when my father unfortunately fell many times, he just refused to wear those slips, slip resistant socks. He always wore those black nylon socks that he wore when he worked at the restaurant. And he just and he was stubborn. He would jump out of the recliner, grab the walker, put himself in the wheelchair and go to the bathroom, and try to go to the bathroom himself and not ask for my mom. And he finally had that one fatal slip in the bathroom where he broke his back and, and it was terrible. It was I was actually in Greece for the first time in 10 years with my family. I was only five days in, and I get that phone call again for my brother, once again, he's crying, and he said, You got to get over here. And, and I left. And, and this was a bad one, and my father only, only lasted six months. But I'll never forget when we were in the hospital, and the doctor or the social worker and the and the pastor come meets with us and says, Look, you don't have end and end of life wishes here. You have no DNR. You've got none of this typical, you know, caregiving family on a caregiving journey. I don't know what the hell they're doing, right? We don't have any of these important legal documents in place that are necessary. And my brother and sister my mother are listening to this conversation, and they don't want any part of it. They, you know, they think this is sacrilegious to talk about end of life, and to speak to a person and say, Do you want them to unplug the machine if you're no longer living and so it fell on me. I don't know why it fell on me. And my brother and sister were like, like, thought I was an evil person. Maybe my sister not as much. But my brother, walked out. He walked out, goes, I cannot do this. You You do. You guys, figure it out. And he, I don't blame him. I mean, he just emotionally couldn't handle it. And so I had the conversation with my father. I sat down with him, and, you know, he and I built a very strong relationship in the many years I worked with him. I just have nothing but the utmost respect all these pictures back here, most of them are of him in the restaurant and all that stuff. And I know he's my huge inspiration, as well as my mother, but I had a very, very important conversation with him. Lasted 30 minutes, and he told me his wishes, and we got them documented. He says, I do not want to live if I'm going to live this way. And he looked at me and said, You're going to be honest with me, right? I go, Yeah, I'll be honest with you, Pops, don't worry. So he did end up going into rehab after that. Never got out of rehab, and then he got re hospitalized again. He was in a bad shape, and I went and saw him. I went saw him on his name day, which Greeks, by the way, they don't celebrate birthdays. They celebrate name days. So his, my dad's name is Dimitri, like my son's name, actually, my son's name, Demetri is like my father's name, right? I named him Dimitri, and I took my son, Dimitri, and we went just a surprise visit in the hospital with him. And I'll never forget this. We're in there and and not to get really dark here, but this is important. I can't emphasize how important it is to have these conversations with the people that we love. Somebody in the family has to do it, so I'm curious. I'm gonna throw a question at you guys. JJ, Natalie and your other sister, who's the one who's having those direct conversations with mom. But I had to look at my dad, and he asked me a question that I'll never forget. He goes. I want you to be honest with me, am I ever going to be able to come home? Am I ever going to be able to walk again? Because they end up putting two rods in his back in hopes that he would get better. But I met with many of the physicians. I met with all his all his support staff, and they basically told him he'll never walk again. You'll need to be on support systems in a nursing home. I gave him the right i This is what I said to him, No, Dad, there's no way, unless you know if you did come home, this is what it will take. This is what it will be. But you won't. You're, I don't think you'll be able to come home. He goes, and he looked at me, goes, well, thank you. He died three days later. He went to the rehab center. And he died in his sleep on his own, and I, I'm grateful for that. I'll be honest with you, yeah, but who among you sisters does that? Does the so the guest turns at the table on you, who the among you three sisters is the one who has that direct conversation with your parents?

JJ: 30:19

So I had the the honor of going through the DNRs and all of that with mom, and that was awful, like to have to bring that up, the all of that, and she did not want to participate in that, so, but we had to do that. And that was in 2019 and she's changed the she's changed it once, so, but I think we all, you know, she says, When can I leave? You know, she always wants to change her residency. And that's all of us, Mom, you we can't leave. You, you know,

Natalie: 30:49

yeah, and we equally say that. I mean, that's the thing. So while JJ had that conversation, and I think the important thing is that between the three of us, we share when those conversations happen, and we reinforce, we do not undermine one another in those conversations, to try to give, I say this respectfully, false hope, because our mom's not going to be able to leave skilled nursing. And so as much as we say, you know, mom will say to us, I really want to leave. We want you to too, but we just can't, because there's not enough human capital and resource to be able to be able to support you in the home. It's just it is just too much and and then for us, when you're direct with mom, it makes it makes it a little bit easier to because that way you're not like, oh, well, you know, maybe, oh, we'll think about it like, I don't. I think you're right. I don't think you give false hope. I think you have to say, this is our reality. This is where we're at. And I'm gonna to be really blunt, my parents didn't plan the way they needed to. And I don't think when you come from a rural from rural areas, but doesn't really matter. Most folks live paycheck to paycheck. We grew up, my parents live paycheck to paycheck. There wasn't this massive savings. And that's when people relied on pensions. And they relied on they thought their retirement from their company where, you know, my dad's pension was going to was going to do it. And, you know, the way that they chose, which we did not know about the way they chose to do the disbursement of our dad's pension. They didn't expect our dad to die first. The plan for them was not that. And God was like, that's cute. I'll show you. And, and so when dad died three years after he retired, and he was 55 when he retired, I mean, and so they they front end loaded, because Dad always worked side jobs. He's always had second and third things that he was doing, rather rebuilding cars or painting cars or things that he loved to do, and doing siding on houses, that's how he's going to earn supplemental funds. And then dad wasn't there, and so, and then they ran through the front end side. So I think it's, you know, and I know that you talk about this, you and Selma probably talk about this from a work standpoint, you've probably gotten into this is you also can't bankrupt yourself, and so you have to find this fine line of how much support can I give to my parents, while also not it negatively impacting me and my spouse, because it's not just me. If I was single, that's probably a different, a different financial story. But when you have a spouse and you have kids, you have to think that. I think that shifts the way that you think about things. Yeah, so I'm gonna, I want to take a break here real quick, because we're at that break point, and then we'll be right back. We're going to continue on.

Unknown: 33:42

Care forward is a technology platform that connects volunteers with seniors, the disabled and those with chronic or complex health conditions, offering support like transportation, home visits and more details online@careforward.io All right, everybody. Zach is back. I love

Natalie: 34:02

it. Exactly. That I want

JJ: 34:06

to make sure so I have like so we have continued to have so many questions for Zach. So I want to make sure that my I guess I have a big question, because we talk so much, and you advocate so much for working and working caregivers. Near at what stage, first of all, during your father's illness, before he passed, did you and Phyllis own the home care business? And if you did during those stages, was it different being self employed versus being corporately employed?

Unknown: 34:35

Yeah, all right, so that's a great question. So my father had a stroke of 2006 he passed away in 2011 I started the home care with Phyllis in 2009 so we did have the home care and it's funny, you say that because I had a home care business and I couldn't convince my mother to get help in Charlotte with a home care business that was part of my franchise system. I even brought the only. Her of comfort care. We had a comfort care business. Shout out to comfort care, and I brought him, Phil, as his name, great guy. I bring him into the house. My mom's giving him baklava, the pastries. She's being real polite, and we're having a 30 minute conversation. You know, my dad's sitting in the corner just shaking his head because he knows this isn't going anywhere. And with my in Phil, God bless his soul, he's such a great guy. We walk into the driveway. When he leaves, he goes, I thought that went really well, and I go, now that was like the tiger smiling at you, about to eat whatever you have in your hand. You got two pieces of baklava. You're not getting anything. That's That's it. And my mother never, never used home care until it was too late to use home care. So that's what was really frustrating. But yeah, we ran that business. Now you ask a great question, is it easier when, when you know when you're running your own business and and JJ, you, you made such a great point about that when we talk to you for our stories from real caregivers, working caregivers, and thank you for that, both of you for doing that for us, for someone on our website. But no, it's not easier in the beginning. It might feel easier because you do have the luxury of, oh, I can break away. But guess what was happening? My business suffered big time because I was no longer I was on the I was the marketing, building the client relationship, developing the business side, and Laura Phyllis was the back office, and all the hiring and training. And so when I would leave, I'd leave for three days, four days, paying out of my own pocket. You know, I would travel. I stayed in a hotel for, you know, reasons we talked about earlier, because I sold my mother's home, and so all these expenses were adding up, and I would come back, and it took 24 hours to try to cleanse yourself from from the emotion that you're going through and from all the issues. And guess what? You also have follow up phone calls, because when you're down there, you're trying to meet as many people as possible, right? The executive director, you're meeting with the director of nursing, you're meeting with medication specialist, dietitian. You meet with all these people that may or may not see you on the spot, and then you have follow up visits with them. You've got the social worker, you got so many people you got to talk to. And if you don't see them, they're returning your calls when you come back to work. And you meanwhile, you're trying to hit the ground running with all these client issues that Phil says, Yeah, I'll come back. I will have literally 12 messages. I mean, anyone who's familiar with the home care business, it's a 24/7 dumpster fire that you're trying to put out all the time, right? So it's true, I gotta tell you, when we say in our business and Natalie, JJ, you know this very well, because you preach this, caregiving takes a physical, mental, emotional and financial toll on you, I didn't see it at first. I would say, in the first six months of going down to Charlotte back and forth, I didn't see it. But man, oh man, the next two years, I paid a really big price for it, a really big price for it, and my business did suffer. And so I highly suggest to caregivers out there, even in your own business. To your point earlier, Natalie, about, you know whether you're single or not, and JJ, to about having a plan. You've got to have a plan. You've got to have provisions in place. You've got to have people that you're going to focus on. And hopefully you can do it early in this journey, because I didn't do it my first time around. I definitely did it with my mother. I really, yeah,

Natalie: 38:46

so let's, let's say lessons learned. Because I'm looking at our time, I'm like, gosh, we could talk like, I know we got to talk about his besties. Oh God, you have to talk about your mom. Because here's the thing, I love, that your mom is 95 so you got good genes.

Unknown: 39:05

Her skin looks better than mine. I'm not kidding, she looks fantastic.

Natalie: 39:09

Yeah, tell you right now. So, so what you know? You know we talked with our friend like it was like with Paul Jay, if you remember him pasta, I think it's wait. I'm gonna butcher.

Unknown: 39:20

Paul's last potassium. Thank you.

Natalie: 39:23

And so he learned from caring for his parents, and one that I think his dad was first, and then his mom and and he learned, so what were the things that you did differently when it came to supporting your mom, because your dad passes, and then, then what happens? Because now your mom is solo and she doesn't drive you mentioned, and so nothing says like, well, that's like a fart in church.

Unknown: 39:49

How am I

Natalie: 39:50

going to get her around? Am I just going to send her an Uber the whole time? And I live in New Jersey?

Unknown: 39:55

I think it's time to bring Barry and Julie back. Because what I'm about to talk about mom. Definitely, I could use some therapy. Its mom is a piece of work. God bless you, mom. I love you, mom, but you are a piece of work. You really are. I mean, my, my, my mother is one amazing, amazing woman. Phyllis has always said this, and she's 100% right. My mom was born in the wrong generation. If she was born in our generation, she'd be a kick ass CEO of an organization that you would not want to work for, because she will look at you in the face and say, You're a good worker, but you're going to be terminated tomorrow. That's it. That's all there is to it. I'm sorry. I can't keep you around anymore. So lessons that I learned, and I learned quite a few, let's talk about some of the most important ones. Number one, the sacrifices I was making with my family and my finances. I slowed that down. My kids are now much older in 2011 2012 so when my father passed away now, we started thinking about mom, who lived alone like you guys did. You guys did the exact same thing. Your father passed away so early, and you kind of say, well, mom's okay, but we'll keep checking on her. We did the same again. My brother ran a restaurant for six days a week. And his wife, God bless her. She's a saint. You know, she would go by check on mom two, three times a week. But nobody was really seeing her every day. She was living by herself in a house, and things were okay for the first few years, like you guys saw. But then around 2000 Oh, shoot, she did pretty well for about five, six years, and then around 2018 19, it you know, the cocky hit the fan? Yeah, she got she got hospitalized three times in four months for dehydration and UTI, and that's what I raised the red flags to the siblings. Now, my lessons learned number one, I don't immediately jump on a plane. I don't immediately spend money without thinking about it, because even though we were doing really well with our business, my kids were older, we started to go to colleges. I really needed to stop and think and think long term. Okay, this is the beginning. I may have to start going down to North Carolina every quarter. How am I going to do that? And are there other options? Can we maybe hire somebody where we all split the cost, and have somebody, kind of like a Geriatric Care Manager or an aging care life specialist that they are called nowadays, that can help us oversee this, right? Mom wouldn't have any part of that. I could tell you that. But the second lesson I learned is start including my siblings. I started doing emails where I included all of them. Of course, brother George doesn't do emails, but, or when he does, they're ones that you don't want to read. But, you know, and only of late, like the last three years, where texting is becoming more it's easier to use. I now do group taxes every single time I talk about Mom, it's my sister in law, it's my brother, it's my sister, we're all on the same text again. George, please read your texts, please. So I, I, so the second lesson I learned was to include my siblings. I have a much better relationship with my brother now, and my sister is much more involved. You know, I will reach out to her. I say, Hey, can you listen? I'm in the middle of a lot of stuff. Can you can you reach out to the nurse? Because, you know, you can't call the director nursing. Expect them to call answer the phone at a nursing home, right? But, but here's the third most important, I think, lesson I learned again from my dad is you've got to have those direct conversations with mom. You can't fudge it. You can't give in, but you got to respect her independence and dignity, okay? And you've got to figure out whose role is what between the three siblings, okay? So Bessie, my sister, is kind of a pacifier. Oh, Mom, it's gonna be okay. Don't worry. You know, things gonna be good. Zach's a little tough, but it's okay. George, in emergencies, we'll go and see her and help us with something on site, boots, you know, strap on the boots. I will reach out. He sounds like us badly, right?

Natalie: 44:21

Yeah. Right.

Unknown: 44:23

But here's the most important thing, that now mom's also a martyr. Just you guys know mom, mom's a handful. You know Mom, mom, who will remind me to this day, you should kick me out of my house. You kicked me out of my house. You will remind me to this day. But let me remind everybody listening at 95 years old. Her skin looks better than mine. She is well taken care of. She is hydrated. She hasn't had a UTI in over two years, right? They're on top of the care there. Of course, it takes a lot of due diligence, as we all know. Shout out to Susie singer Carter. Her, who just came out with an amazing documentary that we all need to watch about nursing homes. Okay, but here was the most important thing that I have to share. When it was when she had hospitalized three times in four months. I flew down to Charlotte, and I met with her face to face. That's the only way. And now she started getting hard, hard of hearing too, which really makes things difficult over a phone. Which, by the way, not many people know this, but hearing aids are great for human voice, but they're not great for mechanical voice, which means TVs and radios and phones. Didn't know that, did you? So, no, yeah, yeah. So it's very difficult, even when people have hearing aids to try to have phone conversations. And I'm a long distance caregiver. I speak to my mom almost every day, especially back then, but anyway, I go meet with my mom, and I say to her, Look, Mom, you can't stay home alone anymore. I need to bring in care. I know you were always resistance in the past, but I've got to bring in care. She said, nope, nope. Nobody coming to my house. I said, Okay, so here's Plan B, you're going to have to go to a CCRC, right with these continuous care retirement communities where you'll be there and live in an apartment, I can get people to come in check on you, and God forbid, you know something bad happens, at least you can stay in that community. It's like, she's like, No, I'm not going. I'm not leaving my house. I said, Well, here's your third choice. Here's your third choice. You're going to fall, you're going to have a bad fall, or you're going to have a bad hospitalization, and you won't have a choice, and you're going to go straight to a nursing home. So you tell me of those three choices. Which one do you want? Because I'm not leaving till you give me one of those. And you know, I have to go back to work, I have to go back to my family. And it took about 24 hours for her to, oh, just sit there, and just like she was knitting, and she was angry, she was just angry, angry. But she had to sit and you have to let it be their decision, right? Yeah, but you had to do it in a way where she they have to pick. It's a multiple choice. It's not an open ended question, and that's what I learned from my first caregiver journey. I at least had the wherewithal, the tools, the resources, and so once you made the decision, I hired somebody in Charlotte to take us around, right? So shout out to placement specialists who are fantastic. And because I'm in the business, and because I had Comfort Care in Charlotte, he was able to help me. And by the way, a great resource for all of you, wherever you live in this country, if you ever want to know, where do I turn for resources, call a reputable home care agency, even if you're not going to use them. They know all the great resources in the area, because they work with them. They're referral partners. So that is one great way, and it's a good way to build a relationship with the whole care agency. But they're happy if they're a good agency, they're happy to volunteer a number of great resources. And that's where I learned about an aging agent, in place specialist and also a placement specialist. And so they took us around, and mom picked one so we were able to find a CCRC. It was great, but guess what was happening? She refused to let people come see her. So we're like, All right, well, at least she's in a facility where something happens. The Director of Nursing over the assisted living could pop over and see her, but she ended up getting hospitalized again a couple of times. She just wasn't taking care of herself. And so she actually ended up having a bad hospitalization, and she lost her ability to walk. And so I had some issues with the assisted living there at the CCRC, you know, and so I moved her out of there, and I had to go take her to an assisted living now, this is all during covid, just, you know, so I

Natalie: 48:41

moved her out of her house. That's even worse it was during covid.

Unknown: 48:45

Yes, all during covid, I moved her out of her house. Six months later, I moved her into a CCRC, a continuous care retirement community. Three months later, I took her out of the CCRC and moved her into an assisted living. And then out of that assisted living, she only lasted a month, and then I she ended up going to a nursing home with rehab visits all weaved in there. So within a year, she moved three times during covid and Phyllis and I had to go down there and do all this. You know, as far as moving her, I mean packing her up, it took us seven days. We spent seven days down there to pack up that house, sell it and move it. So, man, I'm tired, just talking about it, you

Natalie: 49:25

know? Well, it's exhausting, if you think about it. I mean, and you all are, you know, you've got kids. Phyllis is, is also doing have, you know, honestly, as I'm saying, Phyllis has her life too.

Unknown: 49:37

Well, she's running the business. Well, I'm gone. I mean, we sold our business in 2021 so we ran, we've been running the business all this time too. So, yeah, but it, you know, it's a challenge. Last thing I'll share, what have I learned again? So I was telling you, so, oh yeah. So this is really important again, for those of you planning and financially, we were. Honing on the financial piece. So we sold my mother's home. I was $400,000 that only lasted three and a half years. So we went through that. The only saving grace for my mother, and again, this is why she would been a kick ass CEO, is that she my father, bought the property that the restaurant was on, and thankfully, thankfully, which, again, she put me in charge to help her, and we were able to sell that property, and she was able to get some good finances that not only helped pay for a nursing home, but then I asked her to help pick up some of my expenses. And I had, I have no shame in that, because I've spent many years of doing that on my own. And she said, Absolutely, you know. So she will pay for my flights, pay for my hotel, and I go down there every other month, and I will see her, and we'll spend three four days. I rent a van, which she pays for, and I rip out the front seat, and I put her in the front and we go paint the town red for three days, you know? We'll go see dad in the cemetery, which she never gets to do. We'll go we'll go to some restaurants. We'll go do things. We'll go to Walmart. Holy mackerel. Male caregivers out there, if you take your mother to Walmart and you're shopping for bras, be ready to be embarrassed.

JJ: 51:15

That may be the best advice that we will give anyway.

Natalie: 51:18

You know what your needs change as you get older. Zach, a little bit more support. That's right.

Unknown: 51:26

I gotta tell you this, Phyllis has, you know, find Zach on the phone, and she knew I was at Walmart in Charlotte, and then she checks a half hour later, I'm still at Walmart. She checks a half hour I was in there for an hour and a half, and then she calls me, goes, Do you need help? Do you need to send somebody like 911, to get you out of there?

Natalie: 51:44

This is the moment where she says, sounds like your your old boss. Do we need to call a woman in to help? That's the moment that you're like you probably do. So I will say it's a different dynamic. And we always say, you know, it's not preferring one parent of the other. But I think the challenges, like we would have experienced if our if the roles were reversed, and it was our dad, it would be very, very different for us because, but also the relationship was different. And so I think that's, that's what's so unique, if you think about being adult children, trying to care for your parents and support them at any level is the relationships are different. They continue to evolve, yet not evolve at all. Like your mom saying, No, I'm not going to do that, buddy, and you're, I'm the mom, and you're probably the Son, and so so I will have to, I do have to transition this on because I can't believe, like we're way over our time, but we don't really care. And so where that's our standard answer, we're of our time care, because this is so important. This is such an important conversation. So we have to do sister questions. And there's some important things I know JJ is going to ask. I know her question because I already just know it. But go ahead, Jay, why don't you go ahead and start. Okay, I have two,

JJ: 52:56

one of a serious but my second one is not. So my first question is, Zach, how did you just tell me what you're doing now with Selma, and what got you into that your advocacy and why that's so important for working caregivers?

Unknown: 53:08

Oh, yeah, thanks for asking so, so, um, when, when I was when I mentioned earlier Selma and I got on the phone, after 10 years, we started sharing each other's caregiver story. And I'm like, my goodness, I can't believe that. You know, we ought to do something about this. And we said, we said, let's go, let's write a book. And so we started writing a book. And I'm not a writer, she's the writer, but I would write a chapter. She wrote a chapter. And finally we agreed. And so I love you, Selma, you're Yang, I'm Yang. And she said, Zach, this isn't working out. Maybe I should write it. You edit. I go. Okay, thank God, that's great. I love group work. Yes, yes, and so. But halfway through it, you know, I sold my business, and I took two years off. I retired Phyllis, and I traveled. I spent a lot of time on LinkedIn. I got to meet you phenomenal ladies. I've met a lot of I've met over 100 plus caregiver advocates that I just shout out to all of you out there, but the more I started looking at this, I started thinking, You know what, there's a lot of books about caregiving. I think we need to change. I think we need to focus more on maybe working with employers so that we could try to do a larger audience. Because of my HR background, because of Selma legal background, we have a lot of corporate experience because of our personal caregiving background. We have a lot of experience because of my professional caregiving background. It's really maybe we should bring those together and see if we could try to help employers. And so we just changed midstream, which I love that about us, and so because we're both not young spring chickens, and she hates when I say that, but before the end of this year, we are looking and planning to announce, you know, our services, which we are really excited about. We have a board of advisors that we have invited to join us, to guide us so that we're not typical consultants, so that we feel like that we're getting some good guidance as to what is going. To be the best approach holistically, to help employers, because it's great that employers might have an erg, or they may have a benefit here and there, or they may do a webinar caregiving, but that's just trying to put a finger in a hole where, how do you say it with the Selma? Does it so well? But that's like trying to plug a hole, but just another hole pulls out right? So it's not really taking care of the problem. Is just trying the salute. It's not really a solution. So that's that's kind of what someone are doing now. We're really excited about and hope that, hope to share more about it by year end.

JJ: 55:33

Yeah, yeah. If your employer stinks in the caregiving world, you need to send them to Zach.

Natalie: 55:41

Is what we're saying. Selma anyway, on LinkedIn and on, I mean, that's really, that's where you're going to stay up to date. And they have lots of great conversations. We were on their show, and it was just a ton of fun. And really talking about because, you know, I think it's Zach, seven out of 10 individuals are also caregivers, are also work, either full time or part time, and so we can't afford not to. I think that's what we we have to have these conversations. And caregiver issues are business issues, and if you ignore that, then it's going to impact your bottom line. Let's just be really clear. And so we this is a recruitment, a retention and a culture issue and so and caregivers, I like to say, are some of your best employees. And so do not be afraid to to employ those caregivers, because they can multitask like no other.

Unknown: 56:32

Why don't we do this? You know, I love what you said. JJ, but why don't we just soften it just a tad? Because I'm an Aquarius, so I like this, you know, I'm a lover and a hugger. So employers out there. If you kind of not doing things right, come on to this show first and confess, and then pop over to Zach and Selma, and then we'll help take area. How's that? That's a great idea. I think that's the challenge, employer, listening to HR leader, manager out there, listening to this show. Come on to the show first, talk about it with these two amazing therapists, and they come over, we'll help you out.

JJ: 57:04

We'll hear you. Okay, here's my funny. Why did the restaurant get named Zach? Oh, I knew we were going. That was my funny. I just answer, and then Natalie gets her question.

Unknown: 57:17

Okay, so every non Greek is going to shake their head when I say this, and every Greek is gonna nod their head when I say this. Okay, so in 1975 when my father purchased a restaurant trying to find a name for it, obviously, Greeks name restaurants after themselves, Jimmy's, Joe's, George's, right? Well, my dad's name is Jimmy. In Greek, it's Demetrius, and there were already a few Jimmy's in Charlotte. My brother's name is George, and there was already George and Jimmy the most popular names in Greece. Yeah, heaven forbid you name a restaurant after a female. So my mom and my sister were out of the fixer,

Natalie: 57:53

although that's got a ring to it. Oh, I

Unknown: 57:56

like that. Bessie. We missed our calling bessie's Burgers. So Zach was a very unknown name. I mean, now people call their dogs Zach. So, you know, Zach was very, not very popular. Had a little, you know, uniqueness to it. So my dad decided to call it Zach, and it worked because I'm the only one of the three that stayed in there. Worked for eight years, even though my brother took it over. Shout out to my brother for doing a good job. He took it over and ran it over and ran it for 25 years.

JJ: 58:24

So love it, but by default, basically, Zach is what you're saying. You won by default.

Natalie: 58:28

It was fine. It was the last option. The last option,

Unknown: 58:35

let me tell you, it was, it was amazing being named. You know, a restaurant named after you. I never got tired of it. I never got tired to this day, when I hear people talk about Zach's hamburgers, it just gives me a lot of pride. And I gotta tell you, shoot, it's we were in a couple of films. Shoot. I'm trying to remember homeland, homeland, I think second season, episode nine, the entire parse part of the season was filmed right there, Zach hamburgers there, you know, it's just, it's just, it's just an infamous restaurant that was there for so many years, and when it closed, it really ticked off a lot of people. It really did. For three days, there were long lines around that block because it was the last three days the restaurant was open, I shit. I flew my entire family down there for the last six hours of Zach's hamburgers. It was amazing. It was great, awesome.

Natalie: 59:28

Oh, all right. And so I always like to end with one last question. Always the one that we always do, what is your favorite guilty pleasure? What is the one thing?

Unknown: 59:38

Yeah, okay. And again, I hope Mom's not listening, which I know she's not, because she could barely use the TV remote, one of my favorite guilty pleasures. And I've listened to your show, and I've been thinking about this a lot, and I will tell you, this is a true guilty pleasure, and you'll know why it's guilty. So when I'm down visiting Mom, I'm literally with her, 24/7, for three days, right? And in the middle. The day, you know, I encourage her go and rest in the bed, plus she takes her water pills. So that's the time to unload, get get changed, exactly. Doing that for you at Walmart, I can assure you that. And so I let her stay in her, you know, in her bed to rest, or her recliner to rest her back, because she can't walk, right? She's in a wheelchair the whole time, and in three hours between like two to five, and she always tells me, go to the hotel. Rest, Zach, rest, you know, I go, okay, Mom, I'll go to the hotel and rest. I don't go to the hotel. Rest, what I do in Charlotte. Shout out to Charlotte, famous for a lot of great breweries. And I love breweries. And so between two and five, I go to a brewery, and I sit back and have a couple of brews, find an outdoor one, relax. Sometimes I'll sneak a cigar in and just chill and just I'm in heaven. I don't even get on my phone. I'm just like dad. I promise you, I would take care of mom and my but, man, you could have left me with a little more something here, Dad,

Natalie: 1:01:06

I mean, but then again, that's hilarious.

Unknown: 1:01:09

Those are my guilty pleasures.

Natalie: 1:01:12

That's a good one. I really, really like that. I like that a lot. Well, Zach, thanks so much for being with us. This has been an absolute pleasure. We knew it was going to be a ton of fun, and so we're just so grateful to call you a bestie. You are our brother in care without question, and we love you, and we love Phyllis and the kids. And I just, I feel like we always have, I mean, we can't NOT say Phyllis. I mean, we love her, and she's this teeny person, so thanks. She is really comes

Unknown: 1:01:42

up to my hip as JJ says, so does everybody else. But yeah, I love you. I love you guys too, so much. And thank you for I really mean it from the bottom of my heart, the work you're doing, the stories you're telling, the resources that you guys are giving, your crews that you're doing out there. I mean, we need this. We really need this. And I just thank you for the bottom of my heart that you guys are dedicating so much time and energy and resources behind us.

Natalie: 1:02:05

Thank you absolutely. Zach Jadey, when

JJ: 1:02:07

take us out, absolutely guys, thank you for listening, and until we confess again, we'll see you next time.

Natalie: 1:02:15

Bye, bye. Well, friends, that's a wrap on this week's confession again. Thank you so much for listening, but before you go, please take a moment to leave us a review and tell your friends about the confessions podcast. Don't forget to visit our website to sign up for our newsletter. You'll also find the video recording of all of our episodes on the confessions website and our YouTube channel. Don't worry, all the details are included in the show notes below. We'll see you next Tuesday when we come together to confess again. Till then, take care of you. Okay, let's talk disclaimers. You may be surprised to find out, but we are not medical professionals and are not providing any medical advice. If you have any medical questions, we recommend that you talk with a medical professional of your choice. As always, my sisters and I, at Confessions of a reluctant caregiver, have taken care in selecting speakers, but the opinions of our speakers are theirs alone. The views and opinions stated in this podcast are solely those of the contributors and not necessarily those of our distributors or hosting company. This podcast is copyrighted, and no part can be reproduced without the express written consent of the sisterhood of care LLC. Thank you for listening to the confessions of our reluctant caregiver podcast.