Surviving the Grief Buffet: Angela’s Journey Through Caregiving and Loss

Over the course of several years, Angela Ibarra faced a series of profound losses, including her husband, her mother, her job, and eventually her father. Her caregiving journey began early, shaped by a childhood spent supporting a sister with muscular dystrophy and later intensified as she became the primary caregiver for her mother, who suffered from Alzheimer’s. Angela candidly shares the emotional toll of watching her mother’s personality change, the exhaustion of managing her care, and the heartbreak of feeling both anger and love during her mother’s decline. She describes the unique pain of grieving someone long before their physical passing and the complicated relief that can accompany the end of a loved one’s suffering.

Angela’s story is also one of adaptation and self-discovery. After losing her husband and mother within weeks of each other, and later her father, Angela was forced to confront not only her grief but also the impact these experiences had on her career and sense of self. She speaks openly about the challenges of returning to work, the lack of understanding from colleagues, and the eventual loss of her job, which became a catalyst for seeking therapy and reevaluating her life’s direction. Through writing, connecting with others, and embracing her vulnerability, Angela has found new purpose in sharing her story and supporting others who are navigating similar journeys. Her reflections underscore the importance of self-compassion, the messiness of caregiving, and the ongoing process of healing after loss.

Thank you to sponsor: CareScout

Angela Ibarra is a former VP of HR who spent over 30 years at HP in a variety of leadership roles. Now, she helps entrepreneurs launch their own staffing agencies. She is still figuring out who she wants to be when she grows up. What she can say is that she is a survivor, a storyteller, and a lifelong work in progress.

She has raised an incredible and very spirited daughter who has taught her the importance of having several bottles of red wine on hand at all times.

She now proudly answers to "Gigi" to a growing crew of grandkids, which is a whole different level of joy.

When she's not coaching future business owners, she's probably writing, cooking, sipping wine, or watching animal videos, which is one of her passions. She is known as the animal whisperer.

Whether through poetry, songwriting, or her in-progress book, she believes in the power of sharing stories—the real ones, with heart, grit, and humor. And yes, she’s got a few to share.

Transcript

Natalie: 0:03

Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the Confessions of a reluctant caregiver. Podcast. On the show, you'll hear caregivers confessing the good, the bad and the completely unexpected. You're guaranteed to relate, be inspired. Lead with helpful tips and resources, and, of course, laugh now, let's get to today's confession. Hey, Jay, hi, Natalie, where in the world are you right now?

Unknown: 0:36

Get ready. I'm in Cerro Gordo, North Carolina. Do you know what Sarah gorda means? No, actually, the fat Hill. I'm not sure what that means. Except here's the funny thing, my last name is Hill, and I found this place offensive. I

Natalie: 0:49

would think that would be offensive, to be honest, Sarah Gorda, the Sarah, I'm thinking, No, that's not Sarah's the name of the person. Sarah

Unknown: 0:59

s e r federal, well, and I've got that. So in

Natalie: 1:02

other words, you just said Sarah, S, A, R, A, and it's really, is it? How do you spell it, C, E, R, R. So, okay, so it's Cerro. So for all of our Spanish speaking friends, yeah. So okay, look,

Unknown: 1:17

you killed my Spanish town in North Carolina,

Natalie: 1:21

Spaniards, who came across the ocean that I don't know if you were a part of the history

Unknown: 1:26

lesson, Mayflower,

Natalie: 1:28

what I went we was gone down a whole different path, because history and the Mayflower and our Spaniard friends, that's not what this is about. We're talking about caregiving. All right.

Unknown: 1:40

I got distracted. You know what? I want to get started, though, because we have so much today to unpack and oh, I want to say one thing, Natalie and I have not, not recorded together in a while. We had to jump back on Riverside today. This is so hard for me because I'm not able to touch and poke on you.

Natalie: 1:55

I'm really glad you can't touch me, and I have no clue if you if you brushed your teeth. I

Unknown: 2:00

did. I did okay. I showed you on YouTube. If anybody needs to inspect my teeth, you can jump on there. It's hard for me not to be able to touch and love on you today. So

Natalie: 2:08

I'm really glad that you pulled it together and you actually did something with yourself. No, you should go to YouTube and watch this, because she looks like crap.

Unknown: 2:15

I didn't I brush my hair. It's humid in North Carolina. Keep

Natalie: 2:19

going. Let's talk about Angela, because we have an amazing guest. I know people are like, can you get to it? Girls, nobody cares about JJs hair.

Unknown: 2:26

Am I smelled my armpits. They smell. Jay. Keep going. Okay, sorry, okay. Jay, okay. I'm gonna say this. I don't know where to start, because when I read Angela's her backstory on caregiving, I was like, This is so amazing, Angela. So I'm gonna throw that out. First of all, we have Angela Ibarra. Is that right? Angela, everybody? I hope it's not Spanish, okay? So she spent over 30 years in a variety of leadership roles, and I love that. Now. She helps entrepreneurs launch their own staffing agencies, because I love helping entrepreneurs. In the beginning, she says she's figuring out who she wants to be when she grows up. I'm still doing that too. She is a survivor. She is a storyteller and a lifelong work in progress. But I'm gonna tell you guys, the past few years have been I'm gonna say she wouldn't recommend them to anyone. In the span of four years, she lost her husband, her mom, her job, and then her dad, and she says it's been like the grief buffet, except no one asked for seconds. I'm not going any further, guys, because Angela's story is amazing, and she's the one here to share it. I've

Natalie: 3:35

never heard you, no, Jay, I've never heard of somebody refer to it as a grief buffet. I mean, she lies down there right up front that that sets the tone for what we're going to talk about today. And if caregiving is synonymous with grief, if you really think about it, you know, Angela, we're thrilled to have you here today. So first, let me just say we're thrilled to have

Unknown: 3:55

you here. Yeah, thank you. I'm glad to be here too.

Natalie: 3:58

Yeah. And she's a real team player, because it's six o'clock in the morning where she's at and she looks like magic. So watch for JJ, so you can be like, JJ, just got out of bed, and then look at Angela and think she's on the cover of Vogue. She's, I'm telling you, right now. So you're channeling your inner Sarah. Jessica Parker, you're looking beautiful lady. All right. So you know it is true. Grief is it does. And I think we have never really started this way. Grief really is synonymous with caregiving, because there's an element of loss, whether you lose your loved one or not, because caregiving has this ripple effect of how it impacts your life, positive and challenges and negative. And really it is negative. Sometimes negative things happen. So, yeah, so Angela, let's start from the beginning, you know, I always like to say, let's start from the beginning. You were born, and then kind of skip to other parts, but mostly tell us, give us a little backstory. Tell us a little bit about who you are, you know, and that sort of thing. And kind of walk us up to. It when care first began.

Unknown: 5:01

Okay, perfect. Well, I came from pretty much a basic loving Catholic family, so confessions are pretty synonymous for me. So this is a perfect podcast for me to be on.

Natalie: 5:15

So like that feels good. We heard ourselves as the sisters, and we say Baptist, not Catholic, yeah,

Unknown: 5:24

but I had a wonderful mom and dad and two sisters and a brother. My childhood was was a little bit different in the fact that I had a sister that was born with muscular dystrophy. She died when I was nine years old. And I remember being nine and going, oh my gosh, you know, is God going to come down and take me away? I was afraid to walk down the hallways. I was afraid to do things, because I just wasn't sure I understood what all this was. But I have such a clear vision in my head. She died four days before Christmas. So it's Christmas is always a really tough time for me. But I remember my mom handing out the Christmas presents, trying not to cry, giving us our gifts, and we were all trying to be excited about it. I was still young, so of course, I'm excited about what I get. I'm not really fully understanding everything. And I remember my mom trying to, you know, to give out the gifts and try to smile and be happy. And I remember at that moment, I was so clear in my head, even today, that I realized how much my mom was like a superhero to me, for her to know that she was this sad, but she was still just trying to be the strong person for her three other children. I remember thinking my mom is my hero, and I think that's where my mom and my from. Just that beginning, I had this utmost respect and love for her, and we became a really close bond. My mom was literally my best friend growing up, you know. So just lots of love, lots of, you know, growth, and she was my biggest cheerleader all the time. You know, if somebody was picking on me, she'd go defend me. You know, if I was having a bad day and I was afraid to do something, she'd say, Never show your fear. Just walk into a room and act like you own the place. She just always inspired me. And I think that, you know, that is why the journey of my mom and her, you know, her life, which we'll get to in a moment, was very hard for me, and I'm still, to this day, processing all those feelings, a little bit of anger still there with her for it's not her fault for having Alzheimer's and the way it went, but I still feel a little bit of that hurt and anger towards her that loved it and conquer all, you know, and being broke With those things that you think are going to happen. Then I, you know, grew up a little bit more. We moved around a few times. I didn't know what I wanted to do 100% and so I kind of went to community college, and then I finally got a job that was with a smaller company that Hewlett Packard bought out and a big company and and I stayed there for almost 31 years, and I grew up there. It was the most amazing job I could have ever had. Taught me everything I needed to know, great mentors. I have no regrets, other than it just started breaking apart. You know, as you saw that, they split up the whole company, it just wasn't the company that I wanted anymore.

Natalie: 8:21

So let me ask you, because we're interrupting cows, yes, we'll move, we'll move right all over you before we move on out of your childhood. Let me ask you this, because what birth order you are? You? What birth order? I'm a Leo, no, but what? Oh, you're Oh baby.

Unknown: 8:38

I'm an August baby, and I'm

Natalie: 8:40

Oh yeah, baby, August 21 ah, JJ is August 5, and our August 11. And we have cousins that are 678, I mean, we've got we, for some reason, apparently, people got frisky in January, and so that's my answer. Everybody. Love the holidays. Yeah, I'm in December. I don't even know what to tell you, so I'm a cap, but I think that's important. And I could see where that would be hard for you, especially losing your sibling. And that's different too, because you were so young, you were the baby out of all of them. Would you say that your siblings, your older siblings? What's the age difference? Because I'm all interested in things like that.

Unknown: 9:21

My sister is eight years older, no, 10 years older, and my brother's eight years older. Did

Natalie: 9:28

they help with the other sister? Your other sister, who passed with care and you probably were more observant and had intermittent little helpy where you needed? Yes, absolutely. So you grew around you grew up, is what I would assume. You grew up in a in a culture of caring for other people, not just your mom care it's almost like you know you care down your mom cares down. Your mom's caring for you, but you and your siblings really help take care of one another because of you had a sibling with a with an illness, a chronic, complex ill. Illness

Unknown: 10:01

Absolutely. And I know that, you know, she was in a wheelchair from a pretty young age, and I remember going out to fairs and doing things, and people would make fun of her, and my mom and I would get so mad, and my sister would just say, it doesn't matter. She had such a light spirit with it, but she really, she taught us to care for people. She taught us. And I think that's a part I'm writing in a book right now, and I'm writing a chapter in my family, and the first part I say about her is, you know, she's she taught me a lot about empathy, care, and she was selfless, you know, she didn't care. She taught me to speak fluent French. I was very young and spoke fluent French. I wish I would have kept it up after she passed. But she was an artist. She was smart, just because she looked different and had a disease. To us, she was, you know, kind of our shining light. And so to us, it was very natural and normal. So we never looked at anybody differently if they had, you know, any kind of disease or disorder or anything. We just always treated everybody the same. That's how we grew

Natalie: 11:07

up. I think that's I think that's important. That's why I wanted to jump in on that just a little bit. Because I think when you we talked to a lot of caregivers, there is a culture of care and for more people than not, that they've experienced, and that most people don't identify being as youth caregivers or child caregivers helping out, because they think, oh, that's just what I do. And the reality is, is that the person that you're helping has, has more needs than the traditional, neurotypical person and or perhaps is a general physically abled person. So So you you get off, and you go into the world, you're working, and you're doing you're doing life, doing life. And then, and then, what happens? What happens? What's the first bet? Because you're running into it, because you have kids, you've got life going on. And so life gets in the way.

Unknown: 11:58

I got married and to somebody from high school, and we had a beautiful daughter together, and he and I did not work out, let's just say he had some addiction problems that just couldn't be, you know, couldn't be ignored. And so I had to move on and and I was working and making a career for myself and supporting my daughter. I had the best mom and dad that I traveled a lot with my company so that I was able to leave my daughter with my mom and dad and pursue my career too. I learned to be independent really quickly, and I'm not counting on anybody. So I've always kind of just knew that I had to take care of me and my daughter. I did try marriage again, and that did not work out so well, he was one of those great people that does really good when world is good. But when he lost his job during the, you know, the real estate boom, we lost our house, we went through a lot of that, you know, he just couldn't cope with that. And it was somebody that I had a hard time respecting after that, when they just fall apart and and so I said, I might as well do it myself. I can keep myself together. I can't focus on somebody else. So I, you know, I've been through the normal things. You know, you grow up, you have this. And a lot of people get married, divorced, I never really thought about anything. I just knew I had to take care of, you know, myself and my daughter and be responsible. And then my mom was always smoking. She was a chain smoker all the time. Would not quit smoking. She had a lot of chronic problems and breathing. And I was constantly running over to her house to make sure that she could breathe, and teach her breathing techniques, and getting calls in the middle of the night because she couldn't breathe. And I meet the fire trucks and the fire and the ambulance there, and she'd go back and forth to the hospital, and she refused to quit smoking. And she was one of those powerful women that's very independent. You're not going to tell her what to do. And she refused to stop smoking, which was very difficult for me, right? I will tell you that I did do some online crazy, wild dating, and I even wrote a book called seriously on it. Never published it. It was kind of my own therapy, boy can I can tell you stories about that for another time, but wrote a book, and at the end of that book, I realized that I wasn't really looking for a man. What I was really looking for was something in me, some something you know, that I could count on with myself. And so that was my form of therapy, to be honest. Therapy wasn't talked about with my family. We're very Catholic. We don't go to therapy, we don't air our dirty laundry. So I went through a lot of all of those things with very limited support. You know, Marriage Divorce is hard. Raising a kid is hard. My daughter went through some tough times. You know, with her addictions, is amazing personnel and a mother of two and a half babies due here in September, October timeframe. So we, you know, I went through a lot of things that I thought was normal. And so I think that I just got so used to getting hit with curve balls after curve balls. I. To curve balls that I didn't really see him as boy. This is setting me up for something, I believe, for to be strong for the further things that was going to happen in my life. So that's where we get to my mom. Okay, I'm gonna,

Natalie: 15:17

I'm gonna pause this right there, because we're, I can't believe we're already, like 15 minutes in, oh my gosh, yeah, so Jay, we're going to be right back. We're going to take a quick break, and we'll be right back

Unknown: 15:28

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So she didn't believe in doctors, and she didn't believe in going to the doctor, everything. She was very private. So I just kind of took on that role of being the one my dad was not, you know, he wasn't the typical Italian Catholic that could go in there and, you know, and and be soft and easy with her. He just didn't know what to do. So he just kind of froze. So it became my my job, pretty much. But what we started noticing with my mom, I didn't notice for the first three years, and I feel really bad about that, but she started accusing my dad of bringing home clothes that didn't belong to Him, asking where he got this, and started thinking that maybe he was having an affair, all these different things. And I'm like, when does he have time mom? But she actually convinced me, because my mom has always been my stable force, so I believed her for the longest time, for probably two or three years and I had a big conflict with my father. He taught me He's not lying, he's not doing anything. When do I have time to do anything? But that was the signs, the early signs of Alzheimer's with my mom, and then then it became that my dad was trying to kill her, and that he had other people, and there was cameras and vents in the in this, in the ceiling. I mean, just really, really radical stories, getting calls at all hours of the night to run over. You know, I run over there and try to help her. And I'd see that the TV was covered with foil, you know, she had her music blaring. She was trying to block out all these things that was happening to her. Did it got so terrible that we had to remove my dad from the home and his own home, and he wouldn't stay with my brother for a while, with my sister for a while, while. I tried to kind of help my mom and walk her through, Mom, I think you need to go to the doctor, and then she would get mad and angry. You were never going to tell her that anything was wrong with her. So I had a sister who wanted to, kind of, you know, let her just let my mom go with what she thought, and never really wanted to, to dispute it, where me and my brother wanted to get her help. And it got to the point where, you know, my mom fell off of a ladder trying to get to the Vince to remove the move the cameras that were in there in her mind, and she broke her leg, and that's how I was able to get her to the hospital to have she had to have surgery and everything. And then after that, she just kind of went from nursing home to nursing home trying to get rehabilitated. But in that lifespan, I'll tell you, I think the system was very flawed with the dealing with people with Alzheimer's who don't admit it. So the fact that she was calling 911, in the middle of the night too, and saying that, you know, her husband was trying to kill her, and then they were starting to realize that maybe she was a little altered state, but not enough to take her out of the home or to commit her yet, Adult Protective Services got called in on my mom because from the police saying she's calling all the time. So then we're trying to explain to her that, you know, what we need from the case manager, and nobody could do anything unless she wanted to be helped. So it was really a challenge. She wouldn't live with us, she wouldn't go the doctor, she wouldn't get help. So we're trying to me, because I lived here, I was absolutely exhausted running back and forth, trying to help her breathe, trying to make her understand that she's not, you know, my dad's not trying to kill her, but trying to make it so she wasn't angry with me. She became so angry with me, and I think that's where my heart broke the most, was, you know, she said I was the problem. I mean, she she, she hit me a couple times. Just things that were just, you know. Swatted me away. I wouldn't really say hit, but hitting me is swatting me away. That just broke my soul, and it was probably the most challenging. And then going to the hospitals to visit her and her, I tried to bring her something that I remember one time I brought her something, and she flipped me off, and she threw the McDonald's at me and told me to get out of there. Other times I go visit her, and she'd tell me she paid all the bills and and that she couldn't pay this one bill. Could I give her money for that? She was just such an altered state that it was, you know, I even moved home from the Bay Area, from my job to come home and take care of her. And during the pandemic, nobody could take care of my mom, and she was so hostile and had all these problems that I ended up quitting my job and staying home. The first time in my entire life I was on unemployment, the most embarrassing thing to me, which I don't know why. I mean, I never been on it before, but to me, it was embarrassing, and I took care of her for almost a year and a half because nobody else could manage that. Wow. So it was a very painful process, and I feel like I lost my mom a long time before she actually passed away. You mentioned disappearing, which I thought was was interesting in your story, but I want to talk about you, because we talk about that, you know, and you've told us already that you quit your job, and that's a definite impact. Tell me a little more about that relationship with your mom, and because I know earlier, you had said to us that you now still grieve, that somewhat you still have feelings about the impact that that had, that you said cursing became the love language that her passing really came with grief, but there was also some relief around that. Yeah, and I know that sounds maybe a little

Natalie: 21:43

harsh, but I just don't think it is. I think at some point it's there is relief. And I and we would say that really out loud to people like, it's okay if you feel relief after your loved one has passed, because there's so many like they're not in pain. It is very stressful, but everybody thinks that, you know, you should just fall apart when someone passes and it's unexpected. You know,

Unknown: 22:08

there's a little bit of a story to getting to my mom, because my husband was before that a little bit, but just kind of sticking with this part. I think what I felt with my mom was that I've already lost her a long time ago, and I already grieved a lot, but I never grieved in losing my mom. And I think that's really important. I grieved more of an effect in being angry of who she became. And until you can forgive and get over that part, it's really hard to grieve her real loss. And I mean, there's so many great things my mom did her whole life. Why do I hold on to the for the last eight years that were miserable? Because that's what I lived and breathed. And I got to a point of complete exhaustion, where financially I was broke, emotionally I was broke. I wanted her to be at peace and not be tormented with all these terrible things. She lived a good life. We all loved her. She was so tormented with what she thought her life was that I really wanted her to be at peace. So there was a lot of that, and to this day, I'm still not where I need to be. I haven't gone to visit her at the cemetery, I haven't done a lot of those things because I'm not ready, and I know that that'll happen in my own time. You just can't rush it. It has to happen when it's ready. And I'm giving myself grace. It took a lot of years to get to this point to give myself some grace on that, but caregiving for her was exhausting in every single avenue, and to the point that you don't know what to do, my daughter would get so mad and want to protect me, and she couldn't protect me, but yet, I never gave up. I still showed up. I still went there all the time. I felt like it's and it's kind of where you feel like it's an abusive relationship at that point, where you're just giving and giving and giving and all you're getting back is foul language and anger. But at the end, I know that my mom, Kay, I went to say goodbye to her very difficult time for me to do that, but I did it, and I felt she was kind of at peace, and we held hands, and she seemed to know a little bit of who I was, a little bit of clarity. And I did tell her that I loved her. So I did feel I had a little bit of that closure, but still, still need to have more closure and to be able to forgive and forget those last eight years and remember all the beautiful years and all the things that she did teach me, that's still a lesson I say I'm learning. Angela, you, you already kind of foretold a little bit so you said at the same time near the end with your mom, you stepped into another caregiving kind of time frame, is that, right? So tell me when your mom passed. Just kind of give us a little time frame. Is the timeline? Yeah, little time. So my mom passed away in March, early March, so I was a march of it's been three years now, so I don't even it's five. Me how I people say, what's the exact date? I don't keep track of the dates. I just know that it was three years ago. And I'm this is my third year of not celebrating birthdays. I try not to remember so much the days. But to me, it was, it was there was three years ago in March and before that. And you know, mind you, I said I wasn't going to get married again. I was going to do all that. I ended up finding the love of my life, and we were together for 10 years. He was just somebody who came into my life 18 years older, a fluke from my friend was dating his son, and she asked me to come over to dinner one night and make lasagna with him and just entertain him, because they were living together at the time, and he was lonely, and I'm like, oh gosh, you know, so I go over there, and it wasn't love at first sight for me, I could tell you that, but it was love at first sight for him. And he was, like, so excited that I was, you know, talking about leadership, and I was a strong, independent woman. He was really drawn to that. And I'm used to not having men that are in my life that are not afraid of they're usually a little bit intimidated, right? And so he made me feel amazing.

Natalie: 26:08

How did caring for your mom impact that relationship? Because you said 10 years, and you said with your mom, it was eight. So there's crossover without question. How did that impact your relationship, especially if you quit your job and you moved in with your mom. Where is he at?

Unknown: 26:24

He moved with me everywhere. He retired. He was he worked as an ultra stenographer, and he decided to retire. He could make more money retire, between pensions and and retirement. So he retired. So he really focused on my career, and we moved to the Bay Area. We came back to take care of my mom 100% supportive. He would get up with me in the middle of the night and and drive with me to my mom every single time. He never batted an eye. He was just always there. He did record my mom a few times so that if we ever wanted to show how she was an altered state, we could but he was mostly there just to hold my hand, be supportive. She was cruel and angry with him, and, you know, did some things to him too. So he felt a lot of that as well, but he that's what I'm saying. He was just right there. Now, mind you, my husband had lost his wife. He was married for 30 years, and she passed away from cancer, so he was a caretaker of her. So he already had that empathy when somebody was sick and not feeling good, so he was just kind of stepped in and and was, was my light and guiding me through that

Natalie: 27:33

so that he was a caregiver for a caregiver. Yep,

Unknown: 27:36

exactly. He was a caregiver for a caregiver. And it was, I mean, he wouldn't let me even drive to work. I'll take you to work. I'm retired. He drive me to work. He picked me up. He

Natalie: 27:45

cooked dinner for that. That feels super privileged. I like that. He did that. And

Unknown: 27:49

I remember him getting up every morning, and had to look nice to drop me off. And he would come out of the bathroom and he'd go, damn, I'm good looking.

Natalie: 27:58

Beep. That's okay. I just beat that out for you. I love that he thought he was so good looking. That's hilarious. So

Unknown: 28:05

let me what I love is that, sorry, no, go ahead. But what I love is that love sometimes comes from the most unexpected places that we look and look and look and then there it is. And I love that. Angela, make it lasagna for your friend, who's, you know, saying, Come over here and entertain this man. So sorry, Nat,

Natalie: 28:21

go ahead. No, no, it's well. And you know, I know that you know you your mom passes, you feel this relief, because I'm assuming you have this sense of normalcy, like you're trying to find what your life is going to be like with him, and what does life look like. And then I don't think too far long after care comes back into your comes back into your purview again,

Unknown: 28:44

well at the same time. So my mom hadn't passed yet when Alex got

Natalie: 28:48

sick. So realize that so

Unknown: 28:52

we were my mom was in a nursing home, so we were somewhat relieved of the day to day, but still the heartbreak and trying to go visit her in December, my husband went to my holiday party with me. Just wasn't himself. He didn't want to dance, and he loved to dance. He was a Latino so he loved to get in there and just dance. And he wasn't wanting to dance. He didn't feel good. He went to the doctors. They thought it was pneumonia. January, he's back in the hospital again, draining lungs, and then they found some tumors in his back, and he was diagnosed with cancer all throughout his body, and basically no cure, even chemo wasn't recommended at that time. So he was got a little sick in December, diagnosed in January, and he died in February

Natalie: 29:41

was this of 2022 or What year was this? I'm just trying to kind of get the 2020 2022 so he died a month before your mom.

Unknown: 29:50

He died three weeks before my mom. Correct, he died in that so I and so when I had to go say goodbye to my mom, can you imagine the the grief you're. And I don't even remember a whole lot about it. I feel like I was walking in a daze at that time, and with my husband, I had no

Natalie: 30:07

warning well, and you're dual caregiving at this role, like, if you really think about it, it sounds like you supported your mom alongside your husband, and you've got your siblings that are doing parts and components. Then you ultimately move her into skilled nursing, and she's there, but that doesn't and here's the thing we're gonna break. JJ, now raise our hand. Care does not stop people. When your person goes into assisted living, Senior Living, skilled nursing, whatever, it does not end it is just different. And so I think that's important. And then he gets sick. Alex gets sick, and you're visiting. And so I would say life is a little upside down. I want to pause for just a second, because we're already at time for a break for our wonderful sponsors. We'll be right back, because I want to pick this back up and we'll be right back. Care

Unknown: 30:56

forward is a technology platform that connects volunteers with seniors, the disabled and those with chronic or complex health conditions, offering support, like transportation, home visits and more details online@careforward.io All right, everybody, we are back here with Angela and I think Natalie and I are just kind of a heart stop right here. So Angela, you've shared just some, just the that moment where your husband, Alex, has passed in February. You're in a days. Your mom passes in March. I personally, I'm sitting here thinking this whole time is a day. He's like, I'm not sure how you're functioning a daughter. And I'm thinking, you at that time, because she's two and a half, she has two and a half children, you know, almost she's got another one on the way. Do you have grandchildren at that point? Yes. Are you working or you're you're still taking care so you're on that leave portion? No, I'm working. At this point. I am back to work as as a VP of HR. So very big responsibilities. I am trying to function the best that I can. My daughter's had two kids at this point, and then I have a granddaughter from my husband's side, and she was the love of our life, too. And they had to all come say goodbye to Alex. And we had very little time to actually prepare for anything he did come home, and I was a hospice caretaker for him as well. So he came home and they said it'd probably be three months. And it was three weeks when he was home and he passed, you know, I was administering the morphine. I was administering the drugs. I had a nurse come and help me bathe him a couple times a week. I remember getting very frustrated trying to help him brush his teeth, and he didn't understand. You know, he was starting to really lose the comprehension and having him try to brush his teeth and then rinse with mouthwash, and he would swallow the mouthwash, and I'd say, No, you're not supposed to swallow. You're supposed to spit it back out. And I remember getting very angry over that silly thing. But, you know, it wasn't just that thing. It was just what the position I was in going into the other room and screaming and crying and and a part of me was mad at him for not wanting to even try the chemo to see if it could extend his life, that here I was dealing with my mom, and then you're diagnosed, and you're like this. You're so fast I don't get a chance to even breathe, to even think about anything and plan better. It was just such a whirlwind. And then, you know, the hardest part for me is when I knew he was going to pass, and nobody believed me, but I felt it was getting close. My daughter and her fiance and her two kids came to stay with me at the house, and the little one, who is He's four years old now. So he was one years old when this happened, and he was just this love of my life. He wanted to stick with me. He knew something was wrong, but he didn't know what. So he came to sleep with me at night, that night, and Alex was next to me in the hospice bed, and I'm holding his hand, and I remember telling I'm just going to roll over and check on, you know, Hudson, to make sure he's okay. So when I rolled over, I guess I fell asleep. And when I fell asleep, that's when he passed. So when I woke up, I was so upset that I wasn't there when he passed. But I know that's what he wanted, and I know he did it on purpose, but he took away to me that that that chance for me to really say goodbye, you know. So that was probably the hardest thing, and I think that nobody can sorry. I don't think that anybody can understand unless you've gone through it, you know, and this is a thing that nobody wants to talk about, but, you know, taking the body out of there, those things are PTSD moments that you live with every day of your life. You know, those were really hard to see and to witness. And you know, I have good family and friends, thank goodness. But, you know, three weeks he passes away, and then I have to go and go to my mom and say goodbye to my mom, and then go to her funeral, which was hard to do, and I hadn't even planned what I was going. To do with my husband yet. So in the meantime, I am taking time off of work. Thank God. My job was very good to me during this time, to let me have as much time as I needed, and very supportive. But I think that, you know, there's more to that story we can talk about in a minute, but I think it's just all that, all that at one time is a lot for one person to handle. And I know I've been through a lot leading up to this, but not like this. I mean, I was angry with God, I was angry with Alex, angry with my mom, angry with everybody, and it was a really difficult time. And I don't think I realized how difficult it was, and the PTSD that comes with it, when you wake up in the middle of night and you remember doing medicine, or you remember doing these things as a caretaker. Could I have done something different? Should I have done something better? You go through those, that's normal feelings, but you, you, you just kind of sweep it under the rug, because that's kind of how I grew up. You just sweep on the rug. You keep moving. And if you do that, you're you're not really healing, and it's going to be a long festering pain, unless you start dealing with it head

Natalie: 36:08

on. Festering is the right word. I think festering is the right word, and I really appreciate how authentic you are with our with with folks that are listening, because I think there's so many people who can relate and say I felt overwhelmed too, and like I'm surprised, like, you didn't pull like an Angela Bassett when in that waiting to excel, where she just, like, blows the car up and just is like, Screw it. I'm leaving. And because I would have wanted to have quit, like, I quit. And so anybody out there who's not been a caregiver probably would be like, I just want to walk away or let somebody else do it, or why? Why didn't your family step into care and take the lead when your husband was this? Or why didn't? There's lots of whys. And when you've not lived in the middle of the total dumpster fire, you don't even think. For me, there are many times I thought, and it was typically when I was walking by myself. I'd take 20 minutes to walk by myself in the city, and I'd be like, what if I didn't go back? And I think about that, what if I didn't, what if I just stayed here at Trader Joe's under the cool bridge and forever, and I just kept pretending that might take an extra five minutes, that was my defiance, like I'm going to take, say, an extra five minutes for myself and then I go back, because not returning was never an option. Yeah? Like, yeah. I mean, I kind of had to return. I mean, even if I had to go to somewhere to sleep. So exactly, I think that's, I think this is so such an important thing to talk about, because you're right. How do you even plan when you've got and you're planning for someone's passing and, you know that sort of thing, had you and your husband talked about before he got sick? Had you all planned for passing and death and had all the things in place that you needed?

Unknown: 37:51

Yes, and he he wanted to be cremated. So at least I knew that he didn't want a funeral. He wanted a celebration of life, which I was able to pull together a few months afterwards, but it took me a little time to heal. I had to go through my mom. I think I went back to work a few months and then I think we had his, his his celebration of life. And what I one thing I want to say is that I think is really important for employers. I just this is something that I believe in. They're really good, I think at a lot of times of helping you when you're going through the stuff, right? But people expect, when I went back to work, and it was the hardest day going back to work, but because you smile, because you go out, have, you know, why? Why you have cocktail hour with somebody after work, or because you finish a project, they think, Oh, she's fine. She's good. And so they don't realize that there are some signs of things that are maybe building, and they're oblivious to it, because they want to believe you're okay and you're not. When you lose somebody, you're not healed in two months, because you go back to work, by any means, you're going to go through things, and I think that's the one thing that I I take responsibility for is I let myself be pretend I was okay to make everybody else feel comfortable.

Natalie: 39:09

Oh, now that's the money statement. It's the truth. I let myself be okay because I didn't want anybody else to feel uncomfortable, even in the time before Jason and I moved like, Yes, oh, we don't want it. And people are like, Oh, I'm so sorry. And you're like, Oh, that's okay. No, I just say thank you now, like, Thank you.

Unknown: 39:28

You know, Angela is so interesting. You say that because I think about when our dad passed away, and, oh, a little different than Alex, but he passed away tragically, like he just died on the Fourth of July, massive heart attack, and still a little angry, never said goodbye, and so that's an issue. But I remember when he died, and I was a commercial lender, and so you get that week off from work and you go back to work, but I never really felt like I dealt with that. And about a year and a half later, I was laid off, and the prior year I had been. The top Lender of my bank. And I never, I never really dealt with it. And as I look back with it, I always think, is it because I couldn't process it? And I remember I did the best I could. I was the smile, I was the Okay, my chipper normal get back in itself, but right before it happened, and I will not get teary eyed, I went to dinner with our CEO and one of my best clients and my boss, and I remember that that good customer looking across the table at me at this fancy steakhouse, and he said, How are you doing now that your dad? You know, I know you lost your dad last year, and I broke at the table, and I had to go to the bathroom excuse myself, because I was like, it's a year out. I can't discuss this. And I think you are exactly right when you say employers. I had hidden it for so long, so everybody else would be fine. And that's kind of an interjection, but you have brought up something very important, that people just don't realize that they should have seen those signs that I'm I'm doing, you know, doing as good as I can, and just kind of hiding it all so and I think it that I can honestly say, because I lost my job after all this too. So my job was lost, and here I am a superstar. I just went to, you know, what they call the MVP award, and I went to Cancun or macabre, I mean, and I got to do, you know, all these wonderful things. I was a VP of HR. I should know better. I should know these things too. I really cross so many boundaries of trying, of talking about things, and being things with my team, because they were filling a void that I didn't realize at the time, a void of what I lost, of talking to Alex, so I probably talked about things my personal life, things I shouldn't have done, although the reason that I was let go is really Because I was bringing things to to surface, to light that was not ethical. So I still stand by that, but how I handled it was horrible. The things I did leading up to that was not good. And I have to take a look at that and take responsibility for that. And so here, I've never been written up in my entire life, in any career, any job I had, and here, all of a sudden, now I am left with a few months severance, and here you go. And I am 50 some years old, lost my husband, lost my lost my mom. I am financially, you know, in a situation, making a ton of money, and now I don't have that. And I remember being so angry, but it's the best thing that happened to me, and it's a blessing in disguise, because it made me go get therapy, and I did an outpatient therapy, which made me realize that I was not healthy, I was not good, and I was living a lie. And then that does impact your performance, whether you want to admit it or not, it does, and it's not even necessarily your performance. It's how you respond to things. Is so much more emotional, so much more magnified, so

Natalie: 42:50

magnify his exact word. I would agree with that. I would agree with that we had somebody else talk about the same thing, Angela, and especially with you being an HR, so that I think this is the part that's so interesting. It's no different than me being like, I don't know what's going on, and I and I was so dysregulated. I was so off when I was when Jason was sick, and I trained on how to get centered and calm and all that kind of stuff. And I wasn't applying it. You're not applying the own thing. You're You're the own strategies that you would advise your own supervisors and managers of how to interact. And I just, I think that's so important to say that this had never been a problem before. But when you go into caregiving and grief comes into play, and you have these high like these, you had chronic stress and unpredictability. And I mean, it is toxic stress, and how that impacts you and your behavior and your actions is going to be people were like, Oh, this is not like you. And it's it's the truth. It is the truth. I felt like, at times I was losing my mind, like I didn't know who I was, I didn't know I was supposed to do. It's why we started the podcast, because I couldn't figure out what I should do and and the reality, and that's why I told JJ. I was like, Hey, we got to start a podcast talk about this, because I feel crazy.

Unknown: 44:09

And she's like, good me

Natalie: 44:12

too crazy. We're both crazy. And Emily was like, Sign me up. I'm crazy too, and we're all crazy. And so the thing is, is that we're not crazy, it's that we're in this this, it just shows you the power of stress over a window of time and how that can impact your decision making, and everything you know, and I don't know if many caregivers who have, you know, gone out and, like, stolen a bunch of stuff or created fraud, in the sense of that chronic stress created that negative behavior. It's typically internalized. It's typically internalized. But we did have a guest that talked about he realized that he was he was a very different manager when after caregiving and that his his employees responded to him differently because. Responded to his environment differently. He saw his environment differently. And that's what I hear you saying 100%

Unknown: 45:09

and you don't know it at the time. So you know, part of me was mad. Well, you know, maybe I'm not well, but why didn't you guys, especially my, you're in my HR team, why didn't somebody ask me, Hey, are you okay? Yeah. Are you okay? Because they don't want to deal with the uncomfortableness of it. And if somebody had maybe said to me, you know, maybe, maybe that's a big maybe still, Hey, are you okay? You seem a little off. Maybe I would have been got help earlier. I don't know, but I can't go back on. All I know is that, but being, you know, going through that loss of a job added another level to me that I knew I needed help and I couldn't do it on and so that's when I went to the therapy, and I found that when I was there, I didn't take pride or happiness and joy in everybody else being sad, but what I did is I felt connected to somebody who could understand what I'm feeling and I could understand what they're feeling, and it gave me this ability to help. I wanted to help other people. I walked away knowing that by me helping other people, by me talking about, by me telling my story, by me just holding them and being there, it made me realize that that was part of my healing as well, which goes back to what you said my upbringing. I'm not one to sit and just be shot down and stay down. I'm going to figure out what it takes to get back up and fight again and what that means. And to me, my purpose now is, yeah, I got to have a job and I got to survive. But I also think it's important to get the message on and talk to and touch and help as many people as I can, because I understand I see you, and I think that's the biggest thing. A lot of people don't see you, but I think people like us who have been through this, we see people, we really see them. And that matters. That really matters because that makes you feel a little more complete and a little bit more strength to keep going. And some days I would say, I don't, I don't even want to get up just, you know, I want to go be with my loved ones in heaven, you know, just take me. I don't want to do this. And I did go through days like that. And now I was like, you know, these people brought me joy and happiness. I have to fight for that, and I'm going to let the good part of them remain in me, and it's, it's a it's a challenge. And trust me, not every day do I wake up and feel good. No, I have good days bad days. That's why I say I'm a work in progress. And you don't know, you know, my boss the other day asked me how I was doing, just a normal meeting, we're going to talk about our work stuff. And she said, How are you doing? And I burst out crying, and I had no idea why, none. And I she goes, Oh my God, is work stressing? What's going on? And I said, I just came out of my mouth. I miss my husband. I miss holding his hand watching TV. I miss waking up with them. I'm I miss him. And I cried on the phone with my boss, I was mortified, and I said, I am so sorry. But you know what? She let she just let me. She goes, oh my gosh, I can't even imagine I lost my mom, but that's not the same as your spouse. I get it. And she says, You can cry. You can Oh, don't never apologize. Just be yourself. You want to take some time off. And she made me feel so comfortable that I was able to gather myself, and we had a very productive call and got the work done, but she allowed me to say it out loud and not judge me or be uncomfortable with it, which was the first time that I've been able to talk about something without feeling that somebody was uncomfortable.

Natalie: 48:39

That's a safe space. So, you know, there's all these things going on. You have all this hard and the thing is, is God's not done with you yet. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean life continues. That's the thing that we do, is, even though our loved ones, when they leave us, we continue. And how do we continue? And you've got your dad, and so you're trying to reorient yourself. You have lot, you've you've been on it, you've been let go, left whatever. You have disconnected from the employer. That's my connected, yeah. And so regardless. And then something happens, and then care hits you again. When? So your mom passed in Alex passed in February. Your mom passed in March. When does care start coming in?

Unknown: 49:34

So my dad was living with my brother, but he was begin getting to, you know, to be too hard for my brother to manage, and they were traveling a lot, so we he would go to my sisters for a while in Washington, and it just became too much. Though. We talked to my dad about finding a place, and my dad was so much more accommodating than my mom and willing to say, Yeah, I can go into a place. He was just, you know, not. He was starting to, like, blow up. He. He almost blew up the house with leaving the gas on in the house, he had done some things that were you couldn't leave him alone to take care of himself, and he knew it. And so we put him in, we checked out a couple facilities, and we put him in one that was about an hour from me and closer to my brother. But then he was traveling all the time, so I would go visit my dad every weekend, almost every weekend, some weekends I just, I couldn't gather the energy to go. It was just, you know what it was, and I made it very clear to my brother and sister, I am not able to take care of my dad. I had to say, I am not physically, emotionally or mentally able to care for dad. Don't ask him to move in with me. I've got my daughter living with me, her kids, you know, with me now they don't want me to be alone. I don't want to be alone. I just can't do I just didn't have the capacity.

Natalie: 50:48

And that's, that's the bravest, kindest things that you can do to yourself.

Unknown: 50:53

Yeah, yes. And it was also guilt, though. But my dad was such a different beast. He understood it, you know, my dad just went with the flow. So then my dad, I got a call one day that my dad wasn't able to swallow very well, and they took him to the hospital. So my dad was diagnosed with throat cancer and was given about they'd say no more than six months to live. And it was progressed, and there was no real treatment for him. So at that point, I said, if I'm going to be the care care, primary care provider for my dad, and move him closer to me so that it's easier for me to go visit and you know how hard it is to find a Medi Cal bed that is willing to accept him? I went through a lot of hoops. Took me months begging and pleading with people, so my stress levels were even harder trying to try to find something. I got him in Auburn, which is close to me. You know, it was still, still a 40 minute drive, but at least it was closer. So got him there, and it was the worst care that I could have put my dad in. I mean, nobody cared. Nobody was coming around. He was out without water all the time. If I didn't stay on top of things at that place, they would have just said, Oh, he's dying anyway. Let's just let him go. I mean this, the level of care was so heartbreaking to me and so disappointing. And they were short staffed, so some of it is, you know, an inevitable but just not they lost his clothes. They would do his laundry. I said, stop doing the laundry. I'm taking his clothes home. I would buy all new clothes his I'd see his roommate wearing his clothes, and I'm like, what? Why am his roommate wearing his clothes? Speaking our language? Yeah, yeah. All those things. The food, he was terrible. The chef, he came out and me and his chef got into it. Melissa is what he's supposed to eat, and I said he's going to die anyways. Let him have what he wants to eat. My dad loved to eat. He was a foodie. Let him eat what he wants within reason that he's not going to choke. I get that. So I was back and forth again trying to hold down my new job, which, thankfully, they were very understanding. And my dad got covid, and from the from the nursing home, so he became really sick with covid. I walked in one night, he was burning with a fever. Nobody had noticed it. I had to go get them, and then they had to be quarantined. It was a nightmare. I remember taking my granddaughter, who loved him, to visit, and she sang songs. She was a great she was a wonderful singer. So she was singing songs to my dad, trying to cheer him up. And I remember some old ladies were mad and slammed the door, and she's got a beautiful voice, and they're like, come on, we're trying to cheer the place up, you know. So it was just not a good feeling all the way around. And then they said my dad was probably going to pass soon because of the covid. The covid had really kind of taken him. So I had this feeling I couldn't I couldn't tell you why. And this is my bizarre story. I told my job I gotta go. I just feel like my dad's gonna go. He's gonna pass any day, any minute. I gotta go. And I was so logical going through this process. I said my dad's going to die, it's going to be a long time, so I'm going to stop and I'm going to get McDonald's on the way over there, and I'm going to eat a cheeseburger and a fry and and I'm going to get some energy in me, because I know I'm probably going to be there a long time. Why I even thought that? I don't know, but that's your logical brain kicks in to take care of the body. You know what you got to do to prepare for and I did that. Stopped the Nate in the car got there, probably within 30 minutes, my dad passed, and I held his hand during this time I was able to be there. It was a different experience, a little bit more lighthearted in that fact, because there wasn't this animosity, there was love between my dad and I. It happened. I knew it was coming. I was prepared, but I still sat there and cried and cried and cried, and then they came in, and they do their final test. And I'll never forget the thing that I saw, and I know it's probably nothing, but to me, in my mind, this is what I'm still dealing with. The PTSD from my dad is they check his eyes and, you know, they check and make sure that it's gone. But I remember seeing this panicked look in my dad's eyes, and I was like, did was he scared to die? You know, did he die even though I was here? Was he still scared? Or was that just a reaction the body goes through? And so that stayed with me for a little while, and I sat in the car. I didn't drive home. I sat in the car for a while outside of the place, and just cried. And then we had to plan his funeral and bury him with my mom. And I was just like, Okay, what else you gonna give me, God? Because I got no more to give. I got no more to give. I don't even know how to function at this point. And I went back to work three days later and and they were all good about it, but I lease work from home. So, you know, I travel off and on, but i What are you going to do? I mean, you have to continue to take care of yourself financially and work. But it was another blow, another big blow that, you know broke my heart, but I know he's with my mom, and he's with Alex now, so there was a little bit of sense of relief that he wasn't in pain because he was in pain.

Natalie: 56:11

Yeah. So this has been a couple. This has been your, did your did your dad pass in 2022, in 2023, so last year, three. So it's, so it's, it's been about year and a half. Two.

Unknown: 56:24

No, he passed. I'm sorry, yeah, 2023, yes. I want

Natalie: 56:28

to, because typically we go into sister questions. And so I want to start with, I want to ask you, what did you do after like, What's life been like over the last two years, as you are trying to figure out life,

Unknown: 56:44

soul searching. Hired a life coach that I thought would maybe help me a little bit with, but mostly more about business and career and kind of things that helped me with some things, which was good. I learned a lot from that about myself. What I've been doing, to be honest, is, um, I guess I would say, learning to live differently. Um,

Natalie: 57:12

I think that I was looking for like, how is the care? How has this experience combined with all your past experiences? But how has this experience like, what if you decided, because I know you're doing something with it, you're not just gonna continue to the person that melts into a puddle?

Unknown: 57:30

No, well, I think that, you know, the first thing that I kind of have to get used to, and I'm trying to do it, is I'm not a party of two anymore. I'm a party of one. And no matter how hard that is to accept, it is that, and that has changed sometimes a little dynamics of my friendships. I have amazing friends, 100% amazing friends that are supportive, but I don't want to always be the third wheel with all my couple friends that we did things together with. So I'm learning how to become a little bit more confident and showing up to places by myself and being okay with that, and meeting my friends places. I can tell you, that is what I'm kind of trying to deal now. And it's like, hard, because if something good or bad happens, I want to call my friends and tell them, but it's like I stop myself because, you know, they have their own lives. They can't constantly be hearing everything that's going on with me that I used to tell my mom or my husband. So I've learned to be a little more self sufficient in trying to deal with things. And so I write things down. I'm a writer. I write things down. I write my anger, I write I write songs, I write poems. I do that writing. And then if I just sit with it for a little bit, just sit with it, I find that I can usually find some kind of relief in it by and I'll always have to go to somebody. Would I like to go to somebody? Yeah, I would love to go to somebody. And my friends are always there for me, but I don't want to drain my friends from their things that they're going through. And it's always about me. So it changes your friendships, it changes your life, it changes your relationships, and you have to try to find what makes you feel good. And what I'm finding that makes me feel good, to be honest, is talking about it, is writing about it, is sharing it. So at some point in my life, I don't know when, and I'm letting it happen naturally and organically, which is important. I would like to do something similar to what you guys are doing, is my own podcast to talk to people and to let them hear the stories and let them feel that they're not being judged and they're okay that, you know, I want it to be raw and unfiltered. I mean, I say things that nobody wants to hear, but I'm not going to apologize for it anymore. That's my healing process for me to be real, and I'm going to do that. So I think that's where I'm kind of leading towards in my life. And I think it's time for me at some point, to kind of do what I've always felt I needed to do in my whole life. I've always felt. I should help people now, I've got a bigger reason and a lot to share that makes me real, and I don't. I'm not going to pretend to be anything. I'm not. I'm still work in progress, and I still don't know exactly how I'm going to do all that, because I'm still working through things, but I feel like I'm on the right path. Well, well, Natalie, we have learned I'm just overwhelmed today with, like, all of my, my emotion, first of all, and then my I just did things. I've learned you want to jump into sister questions, because I know, I'm like, Oh my gosh, I could

Natalie: 1:00:33

talk. I mean, I asked my question. I'm like, I'm waiting for you to ask yours. Okay, like, wake up. First

Unknown: 1:00:37

of all, we got some information from Angela, which I want to tell you guys, we're gonna It's so good that I want to make sure I'm going to make a I'm going to make a post out of it, Angela, because we have five things that have actually helped me survive loss. I'm going to put that up on our page. I'm going to include it. But it talks about writing and it talks about crying like it's a sport. I just I thought that, like it's your job. So there's so many things there's I actually am going to post it because it's so fantastic. I do have a question for you, and it's about something that you said. It says, let's see, because I wrote it down, it says, I've learned that about surviving. I learned that surviving caregiving and grief isn't about doing it perfectly. And I think so many people struggle with that. Just give me a little insight when it's okay, that it's okay not to do it perfectly. I think that we hold ourselves and feel like that it's their last time of life. We want everything to be perfect. We want everything to them to go perfectly. But it doesn't happen that way. You know, it's not, it's, let's just be real. It's like rate you're you're taking care of somebody who's like a child again, that child's not going to behave the way you want them to behave. They're not going to cooperate the way you want them to cooperate. You're not going to respond perfectly. You know how many times I got mad at my husband because he wouldn't do something, but he couldn't, and I'd get mad and go in the other room and he'd say, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, and I would like, Don't tell me you're sorry. And I remember being angry and mad and and that's not perfect, that's real. It's realistic. And then I go back in and say, I'm sorry, honey, I didn't I'm not mad at you. I'm mad at the situation, and it's always just reminding yourself that it's not mad at anybody. It's a situation that you're mad at, and it's not perfect. You're gonna make mistakes. You're gonna have regrets. Everybody says, I wish I would have done this. There's no right answer. There's no correct way to do it. It's surviving to get through it. And you do the best that you can, and then you learn. You take away something from that, that you can incorporate that makes you better in the future, and that's all you can do. I don't know any other way to say it's been perfect or not perfect. It's it's some things that went really well and some things went really bad, and to accept it and give yourself a little bit of grace.

Natalie: 1:02:56

There's no better way to say that's caregiving. Sometimes it goes really well, sometimes it goes really bad, exactly, it's messy, and you just and just live in the mess. Some days, just live in the mess people well, and that one,

Unknown: 1:03:12

I would just say, the one thing that's most important, I think, to me, and what I found is, is to to live in the emotion. So when you're you're sad, and when you're grieving, when you're angry, accept that. Accept where you're feeling for that moment. Invite it to the table, and, you know, have dinner with it. Go to bed with it. Wake up in the morning, make it a friend. Name it if you have to do whatever you have to do, because if you ignore it or sleep it under the table, it's going to come back in a bit in a bigger force. So you might as well reconcile with it, make it a friend, and deal with it and figure out the best way to move forward each day. That's the best advice I can give.

Natalie: 1:03:52

That is, without question, the best advice. All right. Last question, this has got to be fast, okay, this is always the question I ask at the very end. Did you know it's coming? What is your favorite guilty pleasure? I always end this way. I have to know. What is the thing that you do just for you that really helps you to feel like you just love it? What's your favorite thing that you do just for you?

Unknown: 1:04:16

Writing and drinking red wine?

Natalie: 1:04:19

Oh, I hope you do it both at the same time. I do same time. It's always better.

Unknown: 1:04:25

I love my writing just flows a little bit better.

Natalie: 1:04:28

It's all so free. Okay, well, guys, i we i really appreciate everybody sticking with us. This is an extended episode. Angela, thank you so much for coming on and sharing like super words of wisdom. I think this was so important and really, really happy to have you on here as a guest. And yeah, Jay, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna take us out until we confess again. Take care of you.

Unknown: 1:04:53

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Natalie: 1:04:58

Well, friends, that's. A wrap on this week's confession again. Thank you so much for listening. But before you go, please take a moment to leave us a review and tell your friends about the confessions podcast. Don't forget to visit our website to sign up for our newsletter. You'll also find a video recording of all of our episodes on the confessions website and our YouTube channel. Don't worry. All the details are included in the show notes below. We'll see you next Tuesday when we come together to confess again. Till then, take care of you. Okay, let's talk disclaimers. You may be surprised to find out, but we are not medical professionals and are not providing any medical advice. If you have any medical questions, we recommend that you talk with a medical professional of your choice. As always, my sisters and I, at Confessions of a reluctant caregiver, have taken care in selecting speakers, but the opinions of our speakers are theirs alone. The views and opinions stated in this podcast are solely those of the contributors and not necessarily those of our distributors or hosting company. This podcast is copyrighted and no part can be reproduced without the express written consent of the sisterhood of care LLC, thank you for listening to the confessions of our reluctant caregiver podcast.