Confessions of a Reluctant Caregiver
The Confessions of a Reluctant Caregiver podcast offers a candid, unfiltered space to confess the good, the bad, and the ugly of being a caregiver through storytelling, guest interviews, and information sharing. JJ & Natalie are a dynamic duo of sisters supporting their mom living with Parkinson's and a husband who survived cancer. Along with their guests, they discuss their shared experiences in caregiving. Viewers and listeners alike will relate to our reluctance, be affirmed in their ability to be caregivers and gain the courage to confidently step out of the shadows to express their own needs. You are sure to laugh, cry, and everything in between but in the end, all will leave feeling better for the journey and part of the sisterhood of care. So grab your favorite guilty pleasure, and let's get to confessing!
Confessions of a Reluctant Caregiver
Did Mom Drop Acid? Navigating Dementia and Family Dynamics
Michelle Cain’s journey as a caregiver began when her mother was diagnosed with Lewy Body dementia during the pandemic, a time already fraught with uncertainty and stress. At 47, Michelle found herself in the “sandwich generation,” balancing the needs of her own family—her husband and two sons—with the increasing demands of caring for her mother. The diagnosis came as a shock, and Michelle quickly had to navigate the complexities of her mother’s delusions, the challenges of finding appropriate care, and the emotional toll of watching a parent’s health decline. Despite a complicated relationship with her mother, Michelle became the primary caregiver, a role shaped by both proximity and necessity.
Throughout this experience, Michelle confronted not only the practical aspects of caregiving but also deep-seated emotional issues. Her mother’s illness unearthed decades of unresolved resentment and anger, forcing Michelle to process and ultimately find forgiveness. This journey was made even more challenging by the pressures of the pandemic and personal struggles within her own family, including her son’s eating disorder and her ongoing commitment to sobriety. Michelle’s story is one of resilience and growth—she openly shares how her caregiving role, though difficult, became a catalyst for healing and self-discovery.
Michelle’s insights, captured in her book “Did Mom Drop Acid?”, offer valuable lessons for others in similar situations. She emphasizes the importance of accepting help, maintaining a sense of humor, and recognizing that grief and forgiveness are complex, ongoing processes. Her candid reflections provide hope and guidance for caregivers facing their own challenges, illustrating that even in the midst of chaos, there can be unexpected gifts and opportunities for personal transformation.
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Learn more about Confessions of a Reluctant Caregiver: https://confessionsofareluctantcaregiver.com/
** Caregiver Action Network Caregiver Help Desk offers free support to family caregivers via phone, chat, or email Monday through Friday, 8:00 am - 7:00 pm Eastern. Get answers, resources, support group info, or a listening ear. Visit www.caregiveraction.org/helpdesk/ or call 855-277-3640.**
Confessions of a Reluctant Caregiver
Sisterhood of Care, LLC
Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the Confessions of a reluctant caregiver. Podcast. On the show, you'll hear caregivers confessing the good, the bad and the completely unexpected. You're guaranteed to relate be inspired. Leave with helpful tips and resources and, of course, laugh. Now let's jump right in to today's guest confession.
Unknown:Hi, Jay, Hi, Ellen. It's great. It's great. It's great.
JJ:Tony the Tiger. Remember that? Oh,
Unknown:it's great. That
Natalie:was actually funny. Yeah, no. It was like Saturday
JJ:morning cartoons. Remember that? Gosh, you
Natalie:know, I loved Smurfs, snorkels,
JJ:yeah, let's move on. Although, you know, I think that people that watch cartoons, if you're a caregiver, you know, people talk about watching TV. I think if you watched a little, I don't know, Smurfs occasionally, that would reduce that
Natalie:stress. 99 Smurfs. Yeah, 99 tell you, man, Smurf, we have a guest today.
JJ:We don't talk about the guests. Oh, this
Natalie:is not a cartoon podcast.
JJ:It is not about cartoons today. There we are. There we are. Although sometimes life feels like a cartoon, or maybe just about
Natalie:like that show the Wile E Coyote and the Road Runner, yes, and you feel like TNT blows up on y'all run over a couple. You know, we have a amazing guest today. I'm super excited we, I mean, we've been trying to get with her. She is, she is a hard lady to get with, and so I am very excited to have Michelle, and I would love for you to tell folks about
JJ:her. Well, thank you for this opportunity. Natalie, oh, well, I'm sure we don't allow you
Natalie:to. The question is, is, can you read your phone? Is it big enough? Is the print big? I have got
JJ:it on 20 font. So if she's going to harass me like this, Michelle, I'm sorry.
Natalie:Michelle, very embarrassing
JJ:today we have with us. Michelle Kane, and I'm going to throw out. First of all, you know you hear that that term sandwich generation, Michelle is the reason why that term is there. Yep, she was 47 when her mom was diagnosed with Lewy Body Body dementia. Here's some highlights of that diagnosis. All of that came during lockdown. So it was in 2020, at the time, and still, Michelle has a husband at that time. She had a son in high school, she had a son that was a senior in college. One of the other things about this, though, and this is really interesting to me, is that caregiving, her caregiving role, stirred up a lot of unresolved issues, a lot of emotions, and some of those emotions had caused a history of drinking in Michelle's life, and at that point in 2020 she was six years sober, which is fantastic, she says, in all the chaos and in all the messiness, though, of this caregiving experience, there were gifts, and you are going to love what the gifts are that she shares with us. Michelle also wrote a book, and I love the name.
Natalie:This is why we wanted to meet Michelle. Because Michelle knew how to title. Yeah, she wrote the book.
JJ:Did mom drop acid? I
Natalie:like we can relate. We have moments where we're like, Did mom
JJ:just really do that? Did mom drop acid? And those she say that. She says that title is basically, it's the book is about the raw events of our experience. And Michelle, we are so happy to have you here with us today. Thanks
Unknown:for
Natalie:having me well. And we always like to start we given a little background. We always like to know about background of, you know, where you're from, kind of grew up, met your husband, had some kids like, let's give some background, so people get a flavor of who you are.
Unknown:Okay, so going back, well, I was born in reading Pennsylvania, although I have no memory of reading Pennsylvania, because my parents picked up and moved to Southern California when my sister and I were very young. And my sister and I are Irish twins, so we're 11 months apart, okay, which I had no concept of, until I had kids. And then I was like, what were you thinking, mom? Like, does that even happen, you know, but the but so my sister and I are close, so we're and we were, you know, I think I was maybe one, and Danielle was two when we moved to Southern California. So all of my childhood and adolescence was spent in the beach communities down outside of San Diego. So I was your quintessential you know, lived on the beach in the summers gal, and then went to northern California and went to Chico State for higher education. And I went to Chico State a couple years after it had made Playboy magazine's number one party school. Oh, wow,
Natalie:your parents are like, we should pay for that.
Unknown:Anytime I told someone where I went to school, they were like, oh, that's the number one party school.
Natalie:So I thought it was West Virginia University that. It's just, it's Chico State had WVU right before
Unknown:I know, yeah, yeah. So needless to say, that didn't help the descent into the drinking, but that's a whole nother story, yeah. But so my sister went to Chico State as well. So we actually followed each other to college also, and then I met my husband, my see I guess it was going out of my junior year in college into my senior year, and we were married really young. When I look back at pictures of us, I mean, I literally it was we look like kids. Oh yeah, you were 12, you know, because I was 22 just about to turn 23 when we got married. So we spent our last semester in college, actually married. No kidding, yeah, I remember my parents were so concerned that I wasn't going to graduate and finish. You know, you're like, in that last mile, and my dad just was like, Please finish. Please finish. But we did, and I moved, took a job in public relations, out of college and moved to San Francisco, commuted into the city, and then my husband and I kind of sat back at one point and decided if we were going to have a family, we needed to find somewhere that was a little more conducive to that life. Because I was commuting an hour and a half, he was commuting an hour and a half. There was just we couldn't even fathom how we could have a family in that situation, and people do it just at the time. For us, didn't feel like that was going to work. So we picked up and moved to Austin, Texas, and we've been in Texas ever since, wow.
Natalie:I mean, that is not remotely close, like Texas. I mean, you went to and although, although, I will say, if you lived in in, say, outside San Diego, and then Austin, I love keep their motto is, Keep Austin weird. I think it's, I think that's what it is. I love Austin. It's really, it's a cool town, and not that it's not a it's not that it's a town like there's five people, but there's a lot of people, but, um, so why? Why? Why Texas? I mean, you're from PA, you moved to California. Texas is not exactly like California, except for Austin, maybe,
Unknown:yeah, well, and so my mother was from a small town in Texas, Bryan, which is it abuts College Station. And everybody knows college station for Texas A and M. So we would come back and visit Texas relatives all through my childhood. And then we had some very good family friends that also lived in Austin, so we would come see them. So when I started looking for that equation of, kind of feels like a small town, but also has employment, oh, you know, back in the late 90s, that was Austin and so, yeah, so it really fit the bill. And we kind of packed up the, you know, four belongings that we owned at that time and our dog.
Natalie:That's true. Don't you love it when you were poor? Yeah. I'm like, we have nothing. When you're out of college, you're like, we have nothing. It's fine, but we have everything.
Unknown:Yeah? It's like, this, there is an ease to it, right? Yeah, it is
Natalie:true. I mean, there was life was a lot easier when we had less less things, to be honest. So you guys moved there, you moved to Texas, and this is before the boys were born, right?
Unknown:So, right. I had my first son, we I mean, we were barely in Texas. Think we were maybe a year in Texas, and I had my first son, and then I had my younger son three and a half years later, so
Natalie:and so your mom was your mom living in Texas at the time,
Unknown:no, but she soon followed. So the and I laughed saying that, because you know it, you know, and I think you may have touched on it in the bio, but my mom and I had a very complicated relationship. And so one of the things to my story as a reluctant caregiver is really caring for somebody that you know maybe you didn't have this really friendly relationship all through your life with. And so I had left California, kind of like, Yay, freedom. And she and my dad were still in California. And it wasn't that we had this horrible relationship. We talked on the phone and stuff. I didn't necessarily want her in my backyard, right? Yes, so I moved to Texas, and, of course, her family is here, so I have a her first grandbaby, and then it's quickly, she buys a house in Texas and starts splitting time here. So so it was a little bit of a mixed bag, you know. And she she ended up after my dad passed away, my dad passed away and 2006 Mm, hmm. So my mom became a widow, and then she was out here in in College Station again in Texas, to help her sister care for their mom. So, yeah, life comes full circle. I'm realizing you kind of end up back in the town you were in before.
Natalie:No, that's interesting that your mom moved. Did she move for to help care for her mom alongside her sister? Or was it kind of like this works and I've got my first grandbaby, and this is where all my people are. Are, because we're all about your people, like all of our people are in Tennessee, and so was it like a multitude of things? And you were like, Yeah, I kind of moved to, you should stay.
Unknown:So there was a series of years in between me having the grandbaby and my mom permanently coming to Texas. So she spent, she spent kind of half, half time in Texas, when, when my son was born, then with my dad passing, she she went through a lot of depression, and she was just kind of hauled up in San Diego, and her sister convinced her to come out to help care for their mom. Little side story on that too. She and her mother had a very complicated relationship. In fact, I can count on one hand how many times I saw my grandmother growing up and when, when she was in town, you could literally, even as a child, I could feel the tension between those two and so, so for her to come out and help her sister towards the end was was kind of a big deal, because they and they hadn't really had this lovey dovey relationship, but it brought her to Texas, and I think her sister knew that she needed that at the time. She needed to get out of San Diego, where all the memories were, and I think that that was the silver lining for that. So it's so interesting, the older I get, the more I'm like, not everything in life is all good or all bad, right? So she, she came out, and that was a good thing. But then, on the flip side, I wasn't super excited having her permanently in Texas, so good and bad, right? Yeah,
Natalie:that totally makes sense.
JJ:Oh yeah. Let me ask you a question. So I hear you saying, you know, her relationship wasn't stellar with her mom and I Same, same thing with you. You know, there was definitely tension there. Did your mom? Was it a reciprocal feeling, like your mom knew that you all had a tense relationship? Or did she think everything was fine because that type of relationship with her mom, she was just used to it?
Unknown:Yeah, that's a really good question. You really realize that you pass things down, generate like through the generations when you start seeing these patterns? I think I'm going to say, No, my mom did not have a lot of insight on on her stuff, let's say and so even though she would talk about her mom and having this really strained relationship, she didn't see it in her own girls. So I mean, and here's why I know that, because at the same exact time she and my sister were barely speaking, it was like she didn't even have another daughter. So yeah, so here you have this completely strange relationship with one daughter, and then complaining about her relationship with her mom, but not seeing it in herself.
Natalie:Yeah, that is, that is. So I know that. So you go and you have, you have your oldest son, then you have next baby nugget. Because I love baby nugget, yeah, and then, and life keeps moving, right? Life keeps moving. But there's always this, this change that really, that really does something that that changes the dynamic. And so what is care typically comes in a crisis or slow burn. Would you say it was crisis or slow burn?
Unknown:In regards to my mom? Oh, crisis. Yeah. She we were in the middle of the pandemic. I mean, we had literally just gone into lockdown, so we, I wasn't seeing her as often as I would have been. It didn't mean there were months going by, but it just we weren't seeing each other as much. Yeah, and I it was, it took me weeks to figure out that something was off, like, not even wrong, just off. And then it went from that to, she's hallucinating. We need to go to a neurologist. And it was, it felt like it just landed in my life, if that makes sense, and then, then you're just trying to play catch up. It's like, okay, we have this doctor's appointment and this doctor's appointment, and what is this? Are you sure it's that, you know? So it was just so fast, yeah,
Natalie:so let me ask you this, because it sounds like, you know, I hear you saying that you and your sister had a tenuous relationship with your mom and but it sounds like you were the winner for being the primary caregiver for your mom, if the relationship was more strained between she and your older sister,
Unknown:for sure. So I always say, you know, my sister and my mother's relationship makes my relationship with my mother look uncomplicated. There you go, yeah. So it's, it's, you know, it's on a pendulum. You're like, well, in the grand scheme of things, I also had proximity. So my sister is in California, and I was, you know, we're both in Texas, and I was maybe 30 minutes away from her. So, so it was also proximity, which there were times when I would get into my kind of resentful self that I was like, if I just stayed out of Texas, this would have never happened. I.
Natalie:I know so many people feel that way about Texas. I know so, so, so I, you know what, I'm going to take a break right here, like, because we're going to, we're going to get in the middle, because we're in the pandemic. Mom is having some, some weird behavior where kids are in school varying levels, because you've got to split and, and, yeah, and, and then we just, there's stuff, yeah, let's take a break
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JJ:All right, everybody, we are back here with Michelle Kane, and during the pandemic, and mom has started acting, started acting weird. I think that's, you know, abnormal, and she's gone through multiple phases, I guess, of diagnosis, and you get that diagnosis and what did? What is the diagnosis? Michelle,
Unknown:so I'll back up a little, because I know that people have a hard time getting a Lewy Body diagnosis. Super challenging. We lucked out, and I didn't even know what it was, I mean, until it was in my life, I couldn't have told you what Lewy body dementia was. And we went to a neurologist who really nailed it out of the gate, and, and, and I don't even think I knew how lucky that was until way later, and she was diagnosed with the side that is like Parkinsonian Louis Bonnie dementia first, because her Parkinsonian side was the thing that he could see the most, which ironically, was not as prevalent. To me, it was the hallucinations that I was hung up on, but for him, it was the Parkinsonian movement disorder side. So he said, I can't, I can't diagnose you, because you have to go to a neuro psych evaluation for that. But on my short list, it would be, you know, LBD. And so I went, Okay, and then you go and you have an MRI, you do a neuro psych test, which is, by the way, like this five hour questions drawing things. I'm like, when my mom was doing it, I thought, I don't know if I would pass I was kind of, like, over her shoulder, like, Man, this is
Natalie:exhausting. When you're not sure if you're going to pass a test, you're like, Oh God
Unknown:no. It's like, I gotta remember when I took a four hour test last you know. So, so it really and the MRI came back as typical for her age, which leaves you like, well, what does that mean? So again, Lewy Body you really don't see on a scan until postmortem. So, so it's a little bit of a difficult one to diagnose, and that's why, when Robin Williams, wife came out with that documentary that she did, I was so grateful to her, because I sat down and watched it and helped enlighten me on everything that I had going on currently in my life. So yeah, so we had the diagnosis. But really what, what stood out to me during that time was the delusions. I mean, we went from having normal conversations to my mom to her calling and leaving me voicemails about my sister and I being in the back room and how we haven't eaten for days. You know, so and you're trying to put it together, because you, your brain's always trying to make sense of things. So you're like, well, was I there? I guess I was there, like, maybe a week ago, she thinking about that when, I know lives in California, and then it just went from there. She's talking about a dog that had passed away years ago, and how she had fed her, and she was in the kitchen with her, things like that. So it was constant with that.
Natalie:Was she still living on her own, she was
Unknown:and that's a whole nother challenge that I know I'm not unique in and caregiving is when is it not safe anymore for someone to live at home? And for us, it was when the delusional world became paranoid. That's how I realized, when you in Texas, we have what's called Silver alerts, which is where they they do billboards when the elderly has, you know, wandered off, yeah? And I used to kind of giggle at that, and then I was like, oh my goodness, my mother's gonna become a Silver Alert. Because when that, when that paranoia hit, I could totally see her leaving her house. Yeah, he was convinced that her neighbor's son was trying to take her house. And she would call. Me at four in the morning and leave me these very frightening messages about him being in the back room and we needed to get a lawyer. And, you know, the the rational side of me was like, that would be really scary. I could see why she'd want to leave her house. Yeah. So then it became this mad dash to find somewhere to put her
Natalie:yeah. So before the put let's go and talk about the rest of your life. Because you're a mama. You have a son. The younger son is in high school. The older son is in college. You have a husband. I don't know, a job life, and so at this point, it feels like especially, and the pandemic slowed us all down. It stopped all of us, right? And it's and it affected our lives in very different ways, individually and so, no, I don't think one experience is the same for each one of us. So, and then caregiving was like, the pandemic was like, Oh, watch this. We're going to do this for you as well. So what's going on at this point with marriage and the boys and work and trying to navigate? Oh yeah, mom can't stay at home any longer,
Unknown:right? So I'll start with my job at the time, because it was kind of unique. Also, just because of the pandemic, I was working at a detox facility for substance use, and so we had a wait list at that time. As you can imagine, drinking went through the roof, and so that that meant I was an essential worker, so I actually got to leave the house all the time, which was kind of funny, because my family was jealous, yeah, like, Oh, where are you going? Because they were stuck at home. So I was working at detox at the time, my younger son was in high school, had come home, but at that time, it was right around spring break, and they were kind of talking about whether or not they would go back into the classroom. So we weren't really sure. My older son had brought one duffel bag home from Texas Tech and thought he was going back to college. He had just come home from spring break only to find out that he was going to be spending months with his parents, so he was excited about that.
Natalie:No sarcasm, yeah.
Unknown:So, you know, fast forward a little a couple months in to the pandemic, and my mom's still having her hallucinations, and I'm trying to juggle that I have my younger son, who is now basically passing one class, you know? And, yeah, I mean, he's decided he literally on his own, without talking to us. He's gone from being a straight A student to literally having a, I think it was a c minus in one class and failing out of all the other classes, and basically decided that he wasn't, you know, he'd just get his GED and figure it out, and he had already been accepted to college. So his dad and I were like, you know, trying, not we were trying to stay calm, as you do as parents, but inside, you're just freaking out. Yeah, so my husband took that conversation because at that time, oh, boy, you probably didn't want me taking that conversation, because the rabbit hole, you know, I was so strung out with my mom, and I was like, you do that one? And got him back on track. It turns out the teachers were very aware that the kids were struggling, and it was just a mess of stuff. And we got him back on track. And no sooner did we get him back on track that my older son go, he went ahead and went to Miami for his grad program. And months in, I knew something was off. You know how you hear your kids on the phone and you just your gut is like, something's not quite right, but you can't exactly put your finger on it, and I was really distracted with all the stuff with my mom. So whereas I might have gone into Miami, had it not been the pandemic, and had I not had all the stuff with my mom. I didn't do that this time, and so he called me out of the blue, I guess we were probably maybe six months into my mom's diagnosis, and we were, we weren't in lockdown, technically anymore, but we really were, because nothing was open, right, you know? And he called me, and he was at some clinic, and he was talking about things that just didn't make sense, like that. He had stomach problems and, you know, and there was just something off, because that was not him. And I said, you know what's going on? And he just this little voice came over the phone. He's like, Mom, I just need to come home. And I was like, we'll get you a plane ticket, you know, like we're and I said, Look, just go ahead and get the plane ticket and let us know when you're coming in. And then I got this text, and he was coming in, like, that night. Wow, so I knew something was wrong. And when we picked him up from the airport, yeah, he had, I mean, this was the beginning of an eating disorder that had been taken hold when he went to Miami and he got off that plane and looked like a skeleton, and his dad and I just got quiet, we just were like, Oh my gosh. So we had that come in. So I had one child failing at a high school and deciding that he was going to just not go ahead and go to college. I had another one that came home with an eating disorder, and then I have my mom calling me at 4am to. Telling me the the son of her neighbor is trying to take her out. How's your
JJ:husband doing? I mean, you guys are still married. I think that's great. Y'all,
Unknown:you know. And I would love to say that, you know. But the reality is, Travis and I, at times, had the coping skills of toddlers, you know? I mean, yeah, you just had a place where your behavior is not the best, you know. And so we would snap at each other for the most part. Oh, man, I was so lucky to have my husband. Yeah, I thought about it all the time. There are a lot of people who were going through what I was going through without any help from a spouse. And so, yeah, he was, he would just take a deep breath and listen, and he, you know, he would, at times, go up and deal with my mom when he knew that I needed a breather from it.
JJ:Yeah, I want to, I want to ask a question, because I think when we talked about it earlier, we've never had anyone that was very open with us. You have all these stressors going on in your life, Michelle, but you also were open about the fact that you were six years sober, and you brought that up to us because that's so important to you. Tell me about that background and what was going on in your life. Were there ever those times when you thought, I can't do this anymore? How did this impact you and go back to our old behaviors? Yeah, yeah.
Unknown:So I'm actually excited to talk about this, and it's, it's a long road for me, and when I first got sober, I was very ashamed of and I didn't talk about it very often. And so to be in the place now where I'm like, oh, I want to talk about this, because I know it's not unique, and there are people out there that are caregiving and and that kind of falls in two camps, where you're like me, and you're sober and you're trying to stay sober, or you're somebody who's drinking is accelerating, yeah, because of the pressures of caregiving. So for either one of those listeners, I hope this helps. So for me, I'll back up. I got sober when I was 42 Yeah, and changed careers at that time. So that is why I went into the counseling side, and it put me into substance use counseling and mental health. So that's why I was at detox when when I was when the pandemic hit. But so I was about six years down the road when this hit, and I'll tell you what, whereas in early sobriety, not drinking, is sitting right in front of your face, you think about it all the time, like don't drink, you're doing all the things to make sure that you stay healthy and your mind and your body and all those things are so focused on just staying sober and mental health being a thing six years down the road, it was less in front of my face, because I It wasn't something that I thought about every day. Yeah, and there's a little bit of a jagged edge on that, because had it been where I thought about it more, it probably wouldn't have sideswiped me. And I'll give you an example. So I did not relapse, but I I came very close and and what it was, was the it was the day after, I dropped my mom at memory care, and I went and now knowing the stuff that I had just told you about both sons and all the things that were happening. I wasn't paying attention to all the layers of stress in my life. So I drop her off, I go the next day, she opens the door and just starts sobbing and telling me, I can't stay here. It's awful. You have no idea how awful this is, and I had to hold it together and not cry in front of her, because that wouldn't have helped the situation. But it was awful to see your parent cry and to know that there's literally nothing you can do. She was where she needed to be, so I just talked her through that very calmly, and I got in my car and I left. Alcohol was nowhere on my mind when I got in my car, I pull into the grocery store parking lot because I need to get some milk, very innocent, and all of a sudden I start thinking about wine, what is going on. And I, you know, I was so blessed at that time to immediately My mind went to all the things I had heard sitting in AA meetings of people who had been through tremendous things. And I remember this one lady very vividly talking about pulling into a grocery store parking lot after her son had died, and just sitting there and not wanting to do it and leaving. And I remember that stuck with me so much because I was in early sobriety. And honestly, I remember thinking, God, I could never do that. I would, probably would have drank, you know. And here I was six years down the road, and a very heavy, emotionally charged thing, and before I knew it, I had put my car in reverse and was was coming out. And then I immediately told on myself. I got home, and I said to my husband, hey, I don't want to scare you, but man, I was really close to relapsing today, his poor face, I watched his face kind of get really worried, and I said I didn't, and I did all the things I know to do, but man, I must be under a lot of stress that I didn't realize how stressed I was, and those defensives had come down. So it was a real eye opener for me that I probably. Needed truthfully, because there was a lot of stress in my life, and that could have gone the other way. Yeah, and so I think it's really important to talk about I missed all the layering of stress that contributed to that situation being what it was.
Natalie:I mean, that's that's truly what any counselor and group that works with individuals, whether your substance use disorder or going into a dark place, kind of going back into depression and things like that, is really having the self awareness and you hope that you're in that you always hope that the interventions and the groups and all the conversations and all the stories help you to be insight oriented and behavior modifying, and it worked. I mean, what your story is is it worked, and it it diverted you from making a choice that would have been hard to step back from. Doesn't mean that you couldn't have stepped back from it, but that's six years and that that that matters. And so I think you know that's a huge kudos to you, but that self awareness to say, Hey, I could have gone, I could have gone into a bad place. Yeah, let's, let's stop here and take a break, and then we'll come right back. All right.
Unknown:Care Scout, say goodbye to aging. Care that makes older adults feel invisible and family caregivers feel alone, say hello to a better path to finding, choosing and feeling confident about aging care, whether you're trying to understand what type of care and which supports may be right for your loved one, or you need to find quality care now, care scout can be your guide. Learn more at care scout.com you careforward is a technology platform that connects volunteers with seniors, the disabled and those with chronic or complex health conditions, offering support like transportation, home visits and more details online@careforward.io
JJ:you IO, All right, everybody, we are back here with Michelle Kane, and she's had a victory. She, I think I agree. She backed out of a grocery store when, when she was thinking about buying a bottle of wine after a really, she just went for milk, and she have almost dealt with wine, and she'd been six years sober. So that's a victory for me. So I want to, I want to talk about complex relationship. And you wrote in your your caregiving story that the caregiving for your mom, it brought up a lot of resentment and anger that you could not ignore. And I want to talk about that and how you move past it, because you found something in your caregiving experience that you said something joyful in the end, I think so tell me about it.
Unknown:So it really surprised me when so my mother and I, I had kind of gotten to that point. A lot of people get to where I felt like our issues were about what they were going to be, and I had come to peace with meeting her where she was, and that that was just where our relationship was at that time, and that was okay, like, if I wanted to have any kind of relationship with my mom, then that was what it needed to look like. So I'd really put to bed resolving any of our past, you know, and then she got sick, and it unearthed those decades of dysfunction so fast, and it brought up this like guttural anger and resentment that just sideswiped me. I was not expecting it at all. And My poor husband, I mean, he probably we would just sit out on the back patio, and he just let me talk and talk through it. But it I was really surprised by that. And I don't know if it was because our roles got flipped, you know, where all of a sudden I was more the parent and she was more the child, or if it was just this thing that where you kind of, know, you need to resolve things because this person is sick. I don't know what it was, but it just unearthed immediately, and I had to resolve it without the other person being able to participate in it.
Natalie:Now that is some therapy, because if you really think about it, I mean, you have to be able to forgive and and it just be one sided, you know what I mean,
Unknown:and I'll tell you what. So one of the gifts that happened, and of course, you don't always see this when you're in it, you typically see it as you look back, was the disease made my mom almost childlike. So she she got very small, especially towards the end. Her voice became a whisper, which is common with the Parkinsonian side of it, and she the delusions were just constant. So it wasn't really this mother that I remember anyways, when we were interacting, but that kind of childlike stature and her inability to argue with me or yell. Role allowed me to resolve things without her participating, because there was this level of A, you're not the mom I remember. And B, it was hard to be mad at somebody who was going through what she was going through. Yeah. So it allowed for this, this person that had been a problem for me in the past, to to be something that she wasn't, and allow me to get to that place of forgiveness with her. Wow,
Natalie:there's so many people I think that want to get there, but don't know how that don't, that don't, and I think that in our minds, I think maybe as as children, you know, you apologize when you do something wrong, you admit this acknowledgement, so that the other person is validated in that in a different way. Do you know what I mean? And so children, I think, of trauma and abuse depending on it's not even dependent on the abuse. There's various types of abuse, there's various types of abuse, but children have experienced trauma or in strained relationships. It makes it harder. It makes it harder. And I think you're right about you. You have this tense relationship, and then you get to this certain point, and there is no arguing. I mean, how can you even argue with a person who doesn't have the mental capacity to do so, and then how can you expect to have a resolution? I think there was a book, I don't know if you've read it with that Oprah Winfrey did with, oh, what's my favorite? He's my Bruce. Bruce Perry. Bruce Perry is I have, I have a professional crush on Bruce Perry. I think he's wonderful. And it's, it's what happened to you, and she talks about it is a fantastic book, if people haven't read it. It really talks about childhood trauma, and Oprah talks about the trauma that she experienced, and how in the very end, and I'm sitting there crying, I never am crying. I am. I am a really hard candy outer shell, and but crying at the end, where she has got to come in her mind, I have to have resolution with my mom, even if my mom doesn't give it back. And there's something so freeing about that, and I don't know if you felt like that allowed you a sense of freedom, like I'm not going to carry this any longer. It doesn't serve me
Unknown:for sure. And by the way, I'm glad that somebody else cried at the end of that book. There I was out on a walk with my dogs, and that that scene just sort of sideswiped me. I was like, sobbing, and I'm like, What's wrong with me? People,
Natalie:you gotta listen to the audio book. You have to listen to you can read it. But the audio book where, where she and Bruce Perry are taught. They, they are, they, they speak it and it is, it is unbelievable. So anyway, yes, I'm glad
Unknown:it's so interesting. As I as a counselor and working in the rehabs, I talked about forgiveness all the time in groups, and I thought I had a pretty good grasp of what forgiveness looked like, or what I thought it looked like, right? And it is freeing in a way that I can even articulate well. Because I would have said in a group like, oh yeah, you'll you'll feel so much freer. But it snuck up on me. And I think I thought forgiveness was going to be this thing where, like, oh, just one day I'd say I forgive you, and it would be all better. And that is not how it played out for me at all. It was like micro, little things that layered together, and then I was sitting on the couch one day, and it was like forgiveness dropped down next to me and was like, Hello, I've been here the whole time because, like, I it was like, I found myself saying to my mom, I love you and I'm not ready for you to die, because we were getting towards the end, and none of the chatter followed behind that, none of the but you did this, or, Oh, I wish you had been better at this with me. Or it was just, I love you and I'm not ready for you to die. And I sat there just stunned, because I knew I'm like, I forgive her. And it was like, if there was just this weight that fell off our entire relationship, and it also put in perspective all the things that I had been upset about with having to be a caretaker all the sudden just looked like this huge gift. I was like, she's gonna pass. And we just accelerated through healing of decades of stuff. And I don't think we could have done that in a normal situation. I really don't. So it was really incredible to to feel like, to feel it like I forgive her. Yeah,
JJ:that that is and that that was my favorite thing. One of the my I have all kinds of favorites. She does. You wrote the biggest gift was forgiveness of everything in your caregiver story, the biggest gift was forgiveness. And I love that.
Natalie:So the other thing that you talk about because I'm looking at our time, but I'm like, again, I don't care. I'm like. Don't care. So you talk about four very important lessons. Let's go through the lessons, because I think they're actually really good lessons. Let's start with that you could these are lessons that you could only see in hindsight. So after your mom passes Lesson number one.
Unknown:So well the first one obviously forgiveness, because when someone passes your mind, goes into the past, all the memories of the past and everything. And so I could actually stand up at her celebration of life and talk about all the good things with her and not the bad. So what a great thing, you know, to be able to stand up there and talk about what a wonderful woman she was, and not have to feel like, oh. But there's also this other side that you you all didn't see, yeah, like, so, for sure. So what a gift, you know, forgiveness is the one and then two. I've learned the hard way that asking for help and accepting help are two totally different things. So I was fortunate enough in my caregiving journey to have access to memory care, to in home caregivers. I did all of the above in the journey. I did not utilize them like I should have. So I would hire in home care, and then feel guilty that I wasn't taking my mom to the grocery store. So then I would drive 30 minutes go take her to the grocery store, drive 30 minutes back, and then be completely spent to deal with my own family who had been at home, you know, waiting for me to get back to do something. So it was, it was not the right use of the help at all, and they were willing to help. And then even at memory care, I'd find myself doing things that they could easily do, or not taking the time away, even though she was in good hands because of, again, Guilt. Guilt is the thing that just now guilt
Natalie:that's super powerful.
Unknown:Oh yeah, just like, oh, I should do this, or I should all the shoulds. I should do this, I should do that. So that was definitely for me, you know, learning to not just ask for help, but accept it as well. Was another one, yeah,
Natalie:tell me about humor. Because, you know, we have relate, educate, inspire laugh. There is a reason laugh is in there and it is laugh because it's the last thing on my mind, in the sense of, I am always going to laugh through some of the really, really hard, crappy times. Yeah,
Unknown:I'm giggling a little because my therapist would be like, That's a defense mechanism, but it's for me, it's how I get through things. And it would have been hard not to have the humor and the situation with my mom, because some of the delusions were just downright funny. I mean, she had one guy that followed her around, singing all the time, and I remember hanging up the phone and being like, that would be annoying. Can you imagine just having someone always singing next to you, you know, so, so keeping a sense of humor about that, and by the way, that became a gift too, because a lot of my memories of this time are the funny ones. Yeah, yeah. So even though I was going through this, like, horrific thing with my mom, with all these delusions, and I felt like I was trying to talk her through them all the time, those are my my memories that I still laugh at today. So it really is a gift. And I use humor even outside of it. I mean, if you can't laugh at life, life is funny. I mean, literally, like, the older I get, the more I'm like, Man, someone's got a sense of humor. Yeah,
Natalie:that's exactly, right. That is exactly I think God has a sense of humor, like, God's like, Wait, watch this. Just watch this, you know, and you also in the last one. And I think this is so important because I don't, I don't know that I would have said this, like, two years ago, when we started this. I feel like grief is it's not synonymous, but it comes with caregiving rather the person lives or passes rather like there is grief, because there is loss, there is change. It is grief for the life that I had, grief for the life that I wanted to have. And I think about it, and I'll say this just for like, you know, our life was very different before Jason was sick. And I look back when Facebook does those stupid memories, like, look at 10 years ago, and I was like, oh gosh, man, I wish I had realized how happy I was then, like, it wasn't as hard. And then I think about, is this what my life is going to be like? And I don't want my husband to feel guilty. I say that very openly, because I'm very happy with my life, but it's not what I thought it was going to be. So I like grief isn't bound by time, is what you said, and that resonates with me, because I think grief will ebb and flow in our lives, for all kinds of grief. Sense for sure.
Unknown:And I think you know when I when I realized that was a couple of ways. So my father passed away. I guess it was about 15 years before my mom got sick, and her being sick, and that anticipatory grief that was kind of coming up knowing, because at the backdrop to all of this was I knew she was going to pass. I knew that she was going to die, and so I was starting into this grief with her, of letting go of this first, it was letting go of this mother that I knew, and looking at this mother I don't know now, and all of that grief. And then my dad, who I thought I had resolved my grief with, you know, I thought I was through. I had grieved him when he passed, all of a sudden came roaring back, and I found myself crying about things that happened with his passing. So it just muddled all together, and it was like, like time wasn't even a thing. It was they were all together, and the emotions felt very like they were the day that he passed. And so, yeah, I really, it's, it's really interesting to see grief is one of those things that really transcends time.
Natalie:Oh, I would agree with that, because it's, it was like we were talking with another guest, Shannon, and it was like, the time going through, it felt like it was really fast. And then it also at the same time, at moments. For me, especially, I could watch the clock tick like when you were in school and you're waiting for three o'clock to come, and you're like, and you just see every second go by and you're thinking, This day is never going to end. This is never going to end. And there is no sense of time. At times in caregiving, I think, and grief is definitely that, you know, it's time for Sister questions. I know I do love sister questions. I know I love sister questions. Hey, Sister, what's your question? First of all, I'm going to make a
JJ:comment. I love comments as well. I just throw them in there, Michelle, just whatever you want. Talking. About. The humor I know when mom had her, she had her episode because she has Parkinson's, of course, and the humor with her delusions and her hallucinations when we had a medication situation, 10 hours of Knock, knock jokes. So there's some there's some humor for you a drive to the Florida Hospital because we couldn't fly 10 hours of knock knock jokes. So just think about
Natalie:that. TSA would have had some real issues. There's my labor.
JJ:I still get some humor out of that. My husband and I were like, turn up the radio something.
Unknown:That's when you start questioning your own sanity towards the end of it, maybe it's me. It
JJ:was like, just put me in the trunk and you were in an SUV. Nowhere I can go. So here is I love humor heels because it is very healing for us, and I know it can be a defense mechanism. Where did the title of this book come from? Oh, please did thank you. Drop acid. Where's the title from?
Unknown:So one was, I wanted a title that was kind of funny and catchy, because the book really took a humorous tone at the end of the day. And the very opening scene of the book is a voicemail my mom leaves me that is just off the wall, and it really is the first time that I my husband, I were just standing there with our mouths wide open, listening to it on speaker, you know. And he called her back and got off the phone, and I remember standing in the corner of our bedroom, and I asked him, I said, Did she drop acid or eat a pot brownie? You know? Because I was, I mean, it was just so off the wall and out of characteristic for my mom. And then towards the end of writing the book, I remembered that, and I was like, perfect name. And I was working in rehab at the time. I had people that were, you know, coming off years of meth use that were, like, hallucinating in groups, and I was weirdly equipped to deal with them, yeah, yeah. It was like, Oh, you're fine. Who lived there
Natalie:well? And you know it is, it is interesting how you're put into situations into your life that you don't realize that you're being prepared for. And so if you think about when you did your own experience with substance use, you're then going and changing to a counseling position, working with people who probably they themselves, have gone in groups and talking with you about hallucinations and when they were feeling paranoid. And I like how you just said I was weirdly prepared for it. And so you're right, you were prepared for it because it, while I'm sure it freaked you out, you know, don't know, even though that was what you did professionally. It's different between professionally and personal, but there is something to be said for that, how things work its way out.
Unknown:Oh, I was literally just having that exact conversation with one of my really good friends that again, I don't know if it's just being in my 50s now and having been on the earth. A little bit longer, but looking back, every single thing is preparing you for something else. Yeah, I love that. And you never see it until you're like, Oh, yeah. And now, as I'm a little bit older, I actually can be in situations and say, I wonder what this is preparing me for.
Natalie:I love that I agree with that absolutely, you know, and I love that you've done something with this experience, you know. I think that's why we always look to to like the podcast, for me is so important, because I learned from every guest that we have. I take that and I take your experience, and I'll take your experience and I'll internalize that, and I hope that I am able to give that, pay that forward and then. But I think about that, I think that is so important. So I have a different question than my normal last question. I'll have my last question. Got it How are the boys?
Unknown:They're doing so good now. So my younger one is in college. He's doing great. My older one is in med school, and he's doing great. And I will say again, talk about preparing you for things. His eating disorder really taught him how to get through hard things like and to see yourself doing it, there's something to be said for seeing yourself get through hard things. And he has this strength now that's just amazing. And and we watch him implement this, like mental maturity around things that really wouldn't be there if he hadn't gone through what he had gone through. And same for my younger son, so they're doing fabulous. And I, I my husband and I now have this reality that, like, even though your kids grow up and, you know, you're kind of always still around, your role, just plays a different role. And when they when they need you, it's for bigger things now.
JJ:So you just kind of like, it's always going to be money. It's always going to be money, money, yeah, and
Unknown:so we, we we always just take, we have such an appreciation for, like, they're at a good place right now, yeah, like it may change, but right now, it's okay. It's wonderful. That's
Natalie:that is great. And I think people always worry about, are the kids going to be okay? And sometimes, let's be honest, sometimes the kids aren't okay. Sometimes the kids aren't okay. And you know, I think, let me ask you this. I have another question. What would you tell another sandwich generation parent? What would your advice be to them who has kids and who are trying to care for a parent or a loved one? What's the piece of advice that you would give to them? Oh,
Unknown:man, pick your battles. You know, like, there's so much in this journey that like didn't need to be battled by me, like, and I look back and it's so silly. I mean, one really small example is my mother had this tiny little pill that she had to take. I mean, so tiny that you could hold it on the end of your pinky, and then she had to split it in half. And so we would fight about this little pink pill. It took on a very cursed nickname in our lives, and I fought with her nonstop about taking that pill. And when I stopped fighting, I realized the pill was marginally helping. I mean, marginally it was one of those things that the doctor was like, well, we could, we could give this, but there wasn't, like, a solution to anything, yeah, and I finally just stepped back, and I was like, You know what? If she takes it, she takes it. If she doesn't, she doesn't, because it wasn't that critical. And I can't tell you how many fights we had about that. And then that energy that I took on that took away from my boys or my family. So, like, pick your battles, because it saves up and stores, like a reservoir of energy you can use for other things and not everything needs to be tackled.
Natalie:Wow, that's true. It doesn't caregiving at times. Feels like it's all a fight. Yeah? And I think that's, there's a lot of people that are listening to this will be like, God, I feel all I do is I feel like I fight I fight the doctors, I fight the insurance. I fight my I fight my loved one to do the things that I think that will help them be healthy. And sometimes you just are like, Why does it always have to be a fight? And so I think you're right about picking your battles, because if the house doesn't burn down and no one gets hurt, let it go.
Unknown:It's like people who have five kids, and by the fifth kid, they're like, Are you bleeding? Okay, you're fine, you know?
Natalie:Walk it off. Walk it off. Yeah, Jay, I'll let you have the last question.
JJ:All right, here it is. It's Natalie's favorite question I get to ask, and I'm so excited. You're welcome. What is she always says favorite guilty pleasure, but what is the one thing that you do just for yourself?
Unknown:So I immediately want to answer with something that's probably not the right answer, but it's so in it's in the book, so I won't, but it's I have such a sweet habit. I am just awful with sweets. I. Is my go to it really is it borderlines and addiction, it's okay. I probably should do something around that. But, you know, on the list of things that's going to take me out tomorrow, it's, you know, yeah, but what I do do, so that's one thing that was what immediately came to mind, if I'm honest. But like, I love to exercise. I'm one of those people who was blessed with loving to exercise. I get that that's not everybody, yeah, and that helped me so much, and it still does today, because it's such a stress relief, and because I enjoy it, it's just that extra benefits. Oh, anything in particular that you like to do? I like to run. Okay? I like to run the most, and it's a good thing I do, because I eat a lot of sweets
Natalie:that, you know what? It's all about balance, my friend, it is all about balance. Well, Michelle, we are so grateful to have you on the show guys, make sure you check out her book. Did my mom? Did mom drop out? I love that. Please. We'll make sure we got all the information in the show notes as well, so where you can find Michelle and where you can find her book. And Michelle, thanks for being with us, and
Unknown:thank you. And I really appreciate you guys tackling some of the harder topics too. I think it'll really help
Natalie:people. We hope so. We absolutely hope so and so until we confess again, we'll see you next time bye
JJ:bye bye.
Natalie:Well, friends, that's a wrap on this week's confession. Thanks so much for listening in to the podcast, but before you go, please take a moment to leave us a review and tell your friends about the confession show. Don't forget visit our website to sign up for our newsletter, as well as connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Pinterest and Twitter. You'll also find the video recording of all of our episodes on the confessions website and our YouTube Channel. We'll see you next Tuesday when we come together to confess again. Till then, take care of you. Okay, let's talk disclaimers. We are not medical professionals and are not providing any medical advice. If you have medical questions, we recommend that you talk with a medical professional of your choice. As always, my sisters and I at confessions of our reluctant caregiver have taken care in selecting the speakers, but the opinions of our speakers are theirs alone. The views and opinions stated in this show are solely those of the contributors and not necessarily those of our distributors or hosting company. This podcast is copyrighted, and no part can be reproduced without the express written consent of the sisterhood of care, LLC, thank you for listening to The Confessions of a reluctant caregiver podcast. You.
