The Caregiver’s Balancing Act: Family, Life, and Everything In Between

"Let's not sugarcoat it; it's hard." - Dr. Jacob Kendall

In this episode of Confessions of a Reluctant Caregiver, JJ and Natalie chat with Dr. Jacob Kendall, who opens up about his life-changing experience as a caregiver after his father’s health crisis. It’s a conversation filled with heartfelt stories, relatable struggles, and powerful insights into the rollercoaster of caregiving.

Jacob shares what it’s really like to juggle the emotional and practical challenges of stepping into a caregiving role, all while trying to keep up with life’s other demands. Natalie, JJ and Jacob dive into the importance of family dynamics, planning ahead, and how multi-generational living might just be the future of caregiving.

This episode feels like a conversation with old friends as they tackle the messy, rewarding, and sometimes frustrating realities of caregiving. It’s packed with tips, hard-earned lessons, and a reminder that you’re not alone on this journey.

Social Media:
Website: https://jacobevanskendall.com
Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacobevanskendall/

Transcript

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Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the Confessions of a Relecting Caregiver podcast. On the show, you'll hear caregivers confessing the good, the bad, and the completely unexpected. Your guarantee to relate, be inspired, leave with helpful tips and resources, and of course laugh. Now, let's jump right in to today's guest confession. Hey Jay, hey, Nat. Hey Jay, just what? We're right beside each other. I know I'm scared. Okay, so our listeners can't tell that we're in the same room. I know because we are we're big time now. Well, I mean, we're big time in our own heads, that's true, but we are actually, this is the first time we've ever recorded together in a studio because we've actually recorded a lot of episodes together in case you noticed. And I would together like side by side like I would now you can stop talking to you. So you've got to sing the song. I chose the two of us. We can make it if we try just the two of us. Guess what? We have a guest. Oh, I'm a podcast. Jacob's like, I don't know what he needs to do. Sisters are doing. They have got to move on. I'm going to tell you right now guys. Yeah, this is still Convessions of a Rolex caregiver, but we are in studio and we're going to be going in studio. Long term, we wouldn't think our friends at PBS for having us. So, um, but let's talk about like the reason we're here. We've got another great confession to that. So good. I'm ready. I am going to tell you guys all about it. So wait, yeah, boy, too. It's a boy. It's a bull. Yeah, it's so rare. They're like almost extinct, but okay. Okay. Okay. But that was about to take areas. Jacob's awesome. It's my turn. It's okay. Get serious. Okay. So today we're going to welcome to the podcast. We've got Dr. Jacob Kindle who truly has an incredible story and he also brings to us a wealth of knowledge, which Natalie and I can always use. Jacob's life took an unexpected turn when he became a full-time caregiver after his father suffered a stroke and a heart attack. And that was just one month after his wedding. Dralling from his own experience as a caregiver and his unique background, which you guys are going to hear all about, um, his insights are practical and they are deeply personal. Jacob, you have a four dimensional way that you do caregiving that you're going to share with us today to help us master challenges that are with empathy and understanding. Again, that is probably so good that I can use for sure. But they're looking all yes. And Natalie is so important and understanding is even better. Kindness is clarity. Our familiarity is kindness. That was backwards. Sorry about that. You get that straight. Jacob, thank you so much for being here with us today. First guest. Jacob, you're our first person on in a studio together. We're all together. So we're Jacob, we're happy to have you. Yeah, thanks, JJ and Natalie for the, I know we're going to have a great conversation. I didn't make sure Jacob was still there. I know. He was like, I don't know about these sisters. It was the saying, so Jacob, we always start. Natalie, usually starts, I'm going to jump right in. She says, you were born. So, and then you tell us what happens next. So tell us a little bit about your like where it all started like you were born. You've got this feeling. Tell us your background. Yeah. So I was born in our group in Pell, Alabama, just south of Birmingham. I don't think I have that strong. It was so they're an accident, but other people can tell me that they hear it. You know, just a little bit like on the it, like your eyes. I like that. Sprite. So, but I, you know what? It's not as bad as it could be. So I'm keeping up with it. It was not as strong as it could be. That's right. And my hometown is relevant for my caregiving story, because I went there back, I went back there for a little bit when after my dad had a stroke. But yeah, so I grew up there and then I've lived in several different states. I've gone through grad school and then I was a professor at a couple different schools in the Midwest and then in Georgia. And now I'm a small business owner and intermittent caregiver. We can relate to that. Okay. So you're going to have to tell us a little bit more about your background. So you grew up in Alabama. I had some real good people that I like in Alabama. And any siblings, what was, what was lifeline? And lots of family, give us a little pain, a little bit more of a picture for me. Yeah. Yeah. My brother is nine years older than me. He and I are very, very close. And I personally think that siblings that are farther apart in years have a tendency to be closer. I hope that my own children are going to be an exception. We have a son who's starting to in in October and then he's expecting a sister in December. So I hope that they'll be close in spite of the fact they'll be close in age. And yeah. So so he and I grew up being very, very close, we're still close to this day. And we were close with our parents. My dad ended up dying a few months after his stroke. But you know, I know we'll get to that later. And my mom also has complex medical needs. And so he and I have tried to split duties over the years for the various things we've helped our parents with. And most of that time we have not lived in the same place. We are actually living in the same town now for the past three years. But for over a decade, we did not live in the same place. Most of because of me, I'm the one to blame for that. Well, at least you can acknowledge that. You know, it's funny. I like that. And you said that you think you're closer because you're farther apart. I think that's pretty cool because I mean, JJ is clearly older. I know you can tell that Jacob. And I could not tell you Jacob. You will see. It's been passed. You will receive your gift shortly. So and then we also have a younger sister, but we're all two years apart. Yeah. There is. We are very close. So you're okay. But you can totally argue when you're closer. Yeah. But I will say this. So so he, but let me ask you this. So he's nine years older. At some point, he left the roost, right? Or did he stay a community and you all continued and was it you that left moved out of town? Because I mean, you would have been you your mom, your mom, your dad, and you, if your brother moved out when he turned 18, kind of idea. He did move out, but he was never far away. He never lived in another state. I've lived in New Orleans, Indiana, Georgia, and I've also done a lot of traveling around the world. Yeah. And so I spent a much larger amount of time being much farther away geographically. So yeah, that's that's what I made earlier when I said I'm the one to blame. That's funny. So so you you go to college and you meet your you meet your wife at some point. And then, but when does care kind of enter into your life? So kind of walk us walk us through how life is going for you. Well, I my mom has complex medical needs. She has the same lower condition. I got my heart condition room hurts. Can generally order to know this. She and I have both or have each had our aortic valves replaced twice. So I've had two open heart surgeries. Jacob. You are because nobody can see how old you are. It's you. I'm 38. I'm 30 now. So two surgeries. So because if you this is why people got to watch on YouTube. Yeah, because then you can actually see the gets you very like it. They'll be like, Oh my god. He's young. Very. When did you know of your first surgery? 2014 in my second one in 2019. I'm having to do math. Like 10 years ago. He was 28. Okay. Thank you for that. 28. And so and when and so like when your mom had to have it and we knew how to have it, who took care of you? Who took care of each us? Yeah. So let's see. She has with both of those conditions, Crohn's disease and heart disease has has gone in and out over the years of needing care. Our family is very accustomed to spending time in hospitals. So it's interesting when with my first heart surgery, I had it in the middle of my PhD program and I had to take the least amount of time to the the two lane would give me off with six months. And I didn't eat all that time to recover. But I was just hanging out at home with my mom during that time. She was already retired because of health concerns. And it's interesting because she provided most of my care during that. This is before I was married during that time. And then I got a lot better. And then she experienced a major episode with her Crohn's disease. And I started to be to care for her a lot during that time. We joked that we was like the blind leading the blind. But that's that's often how it is with care giving me days. You know. So that was kind of the first major experience with it. And then she has, you know, my dad was was mainly there for her to care for her. And she's had times when she's been really okay. I mean, I've been to Europe with her twice. And including what since that time. And then it would be harder for her to travel right now. And so the main thing that I do right now is, you know, I'll go to appointments with her and my brother's family currently lives with them. And so he and I tried to, you know, split split those responsibilities up. The when it came to my dad, that happened in 2021. Okay. And he had to stroke a month after I got married. So I've been married for for three years now. And I'll give a spoiler because I know we're going to get more into this. I have a feeling you're going to go back to something in my more distant past that my my wife and I. We both met. We were both working at Mercer University. She was staff. I was faculty. And we had plans and everything. A house and everything in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. And then he got sick. And we had to completely completely change those plans. So I know I know we get to that eventually, but that's kind of filling in the different times that I've done caregiving. And I would say, what I typically say now when I was when it was with my dad, it was full time and it evolved a whole lot of things. Yeah. Right now it's not full time. It's more intermittent. And I, you know, I see caregiving as a continuum. It's not, are you a caregiver or not? It's where are you on the caregiving spectrum? And it goes back and forth. It's never, you know, it's rarely ever study. So, okay, I'll pause there because I'm sure you want to go back and. No, no, actually, I mean, so you so you and your mom, I think your family, it sounds like they've are, you've already been attuned to having to care for one another because you said that you're used to being in hospitals. There's everybody in the family kind of have their job, their care job, would you say like, dad did this, mom was leaned into this. If it depending on who was sick. I would say more so it's not the particular task. It's, oh, well, I did this last time as your turn. In a common example is, my dad's dad is actually still living in these 96 and I'm, I don't know if we're going to get to how much of a challenging situation that's been and how frustrating it's been for us because when my dad got sick, we asked him to move down here with us. We used to be closer when we moved in the Birmingham area, but now we're living in South Alabama. It's several hours away and when my dad was living up until, you know, he had his stroke, he was going up there every other week just a couple hours away to see his dad. And so now my mom still wants to go visit him. He just refuses to leave his home, but she cannot, it is not a good idea for her to drive on her own and so my brother and I kind of split back and forth. You went last time I'm going to go this time kind of thing. So it's more so like that when it comes to those things, but I will also say, you mentioned that we have a lot of experience. You mentioned that I had said that. Let's see as of, I don't, three or four years ago, I don't remember exactly when he was diagnosed. My brother has three kids and the youngest one has a DMD to do Shane muscular dystrophy and that is a huge priority and time commitment for them. And my brother and I've had conversations like, what is this going to look like moving forward because they are going to have to provide care for him and it's getting more and more so and they're not going to be able to do that both with my mom and their younger son. So these are regular conversations that my brother and I have to have these days. And it's not just providing the care. It's like my mom doesn't need to live by herself again. They can barely all fit into her house now, but my wife and I, when we're in a place where we can move to another house, we need a larger place because our family is growing and she and I both work from home and whatever we go to an open house or whatever. We got to, like could my mom stay here with us reasonably? Like these are the kinds of things that we have to go ahead and be be thinking about. And my brother and I like to say we're regularly having conversations. You know, I think that's so good. I totally interrupted you, but no, we're the same rooming, slap each other, Jacob, as opposed to just look at each other like a cute lady, you'd wrap me like that. I heard multi-generational homes and we've had guests in the past talk about how homes really need to be built to be able to support multi-generational, instead of what they call single-family home. We do need multi-generational homes because the care need is going to be so great, especially over the next 10 years. You know, it really went to a conference where they talked about that we need a million direct care workers that are paid to support individuals who need care. And I'm going to tell you right now, we already don't have them. And so I'm thinking we're going to need a million by 2030. That was what at a most recent conference I went to. I'm surprised the numbers are higher. I think it probably is higher, but I think they're relying so much on unpaid caregivers. There's 50 million of us, which I think we know it's probably closer to 75 or 80, because that was from a 2020 study from our friends at the NAC and ARP. But I think realistically, the fact that you and your brother are having those conversations, like you sound like us. Like, Jay-joo, now we're like, "Okay, what are we doing for the podcast?" Hey, mom just got back from the hospital yesterday. Yeah. Like it's totally like, and what are we going to do about this? Yeah. Go ahead. Absolutely. So I have a question because you're, it sounds like you're more of a southern person. I do so. Maybe small town, I don't know, Jacob. So you talk about NACs, and you talk about your mom, though. And is there ever a conversation about, "Hey, maybe mom would do well in assistive living?" Or is that a conversation that's, oh, we're highly positive? That's true. That's true. That's not really all of the table. Well, she's not to that point now. And I think she probably has a very similar outlook as most people in her generation. And I use generation here acknowledging that, that kind of, back consciousness is fraught with problem. But I still think that generally applies that's, you know, and understandingly, people want to die in their own homes, people want to be in their own homes. Totally get it, totally get it. So do I. So I would say we haven't had too many conversations. She has talked about how, you know, when she moved down here, she came with, my dad came with, with her and he was, he was bedridden or needed a wheelchair. And so they needed enough space and what not. But he died like two weeks after they moved down here. And the house is two, once my brother and his family are out there, the house is too large for her. And so she's like, should I just go into an apartment and we're familiar with a few kinds of examples where it's, I would probably say on the, on the spectrum of independent total nursing care, it's not quite assistive living. There's like these, you know, retirement communities or in your own homes. But it's, yeah. I can see that possibly being something, but she doesn't want to live alone at all. She would much prefer to live with one of us. So we haven't really gone too far down that path. But she also is not to the point of needing assisted living. She just, uh, it's in a place where we would feel much less anxious is she simply were not living alone. But she does, the vast majority of things herself. She still goes and does social things. She goes to church. She's in a widow's group and all those things. So she's very active. Very active. I like that. She's like bird. After our, after our grandfather died, we call our grandmother bird on my mom's side. And bird was very active. And my grandfather died in his, when they were in their 60s and she lived to be 82 and she, I mean, way to church worked at the hardware because our grandparents owned a hardware store and, uh, with, you know, but as she got older, or she aged, uh, it was very much, and I probably shouldn't drive into Knoxville, you know, and I mean, like we're from, yes, we tend to outside Knoxville, Tennessee. So it shouldn't be drawn on the interstate her, her, her. And so I think it's, you know, it's hard, especially as our parents or our loved ones are aging or they have their ability to judge or their abilities change as it involves. And how do we have those conversations? I really love that your brother, uh, you and your brother have in this conversation. I want to pause on this conversation because I need to take a quick break. This is so good. Jacob was thinking he was like, we're going to talk about my dad at some point. And I'm like, yeah, but your mom, your, your mom is so great. So we'll, we'll be right back. Give us, give us five seconds. We'll be right back. The you love to listen to podcasts. So do we. And these sisters are excited to support our fellow sister in care, Nicole Will, host of navigating the world with your aging loved one. As former guests ourselves, we love how Nicole explores the world of aging and care. Beyond the informative interviews, Nicole's gathered helpful resources and practical tools that encourage you to get hope to caregivers, navigating the aging journey with their loved ones for a more meaningful and fulfilled life. You can find the holes wherever you download your favorite podcast or go to her website, www.realgather.com. All right, everybody. We are back here with Dr. Jacob Kindle. And I'm jumping up and having a question because we've got to jump in. Ellie is quiet. So here, Jacob, I am jumping back. So I want to talk about the crisis that changed everything because now we're going to talk about you. You have the plan, you're married, you're moving to wait to sail them, which is practically where I live just so you know, you're moving to wait to sail them. And you get, is it a phone call? Is it what is that turning point? And what makes the decision that you go and you have been during your entire life? What's that love about? Yeah. So by the time that my wife and I got married in May, I was a professor and I didn't have to do this, but I did the respectful thing and told my department a year ahead of time that I was leaving. And it was a long discussion because I was on the tenure trip, a long discussion with my wife. I had already started a couple businesses. I had other business ideas in mind. And I had my second heart surgery and that was a huge impact. I'm like, you know what? I've had this second surgery. I don't want to, I don't want to live the rest of my life doing this one job and definitely not getting paid nearly enough for it. So there was, there was already that conversation going on. Yeah. And so we sold our house and I had let my department know a year at a time so that they had had time to replace me. And so we already knew that we were doing that we sold our house. We had a house ready to move into for no cost for a year in Winston Salem. And we, yeah, we were going to do that with a month or two of us getting married in May. And about a month later, I'm in, I'm in, I'm in making Georgia where we were living. My mom calls and said, hey, something happened with your dad. He had, he had a heart attack and he was, he was fine at that point. He, they had to do it. They, they discovered he had blockages. They had to do bypass. I don't remember how many bypasses they were going to do. The, the, the man ate rod eggs and bacon every single day of his life for, for breakfast for 40 years. I'm assuming you ever drink a whole milk as well. That also, he would eat and he would do that. Jacob. Yeah. He never had any issues. And we just always assume a mom would be the first to go. She thought that she was going to be the first to go. But, but life, you know, life doesn't really care about that kind of thing. And so anyway, I get that call. And so my brother, my brother, in his family, we're already living down here. We live across the bay for a mobile. Yeah. They had already been down here for a few years. He started a business down here. But we all went to burying him, to be with him right before his surgery. And he came out of the surgery. But while he was recovering as a when he had the stroke and it, it definitely hit him really, really hard. They tried to clear it up with through some kind of brain procedure. Yeah. And then I think he had another stroke at that point. It was pretty clear that he was, he was going to have to go through rehab and everything. And I, Emily and I, my wife and I were like, okay, we're going to give it as long as we can before we decide not to move to Winston-Salem. Yeah. And we had a cut off where we had to let them know. And, you know, we learned about stroke and like, I think it's something like a month if you don't get, if you don't start showing signs of recovery, then it's probably not going to happen. But I wanted to, I wanted to have all the evidence that I could of that. And when it was pretty clear that that was not happening, we canceled our plans. It was, it was really, really difficult. But my, my brother's family was already down here. Yeah. And I could not reasonably, I just, I just, I could not leave my mom to do it on her own. It would not have been a good situation. So my wife and I moved in within a couple of months after we got married. Yeah. Look at that. That says, take good times. Let's move in with our friends. As a newly, we did a newlyweds. We did not. We didn't expect it to be permanent, of course. But we had already sold our house and making. And we, we moved in and it was my hometown's house. I lived in for several years. There were still there. And as I'm very fortunate, we are very fortunate. And my wife had already landed a really good remote job. Yeah. And because I didn't get to, I didn't get to work hardly at all during that whole time. Cause, um, we, just to be honest, and then my, my parents did not land all the paperwork and documentation that they, that they should have been. And so we had to quickly come together to get power, attorney, medical power, attorney, will, all that stuff. And my, we had to sell the house and buy a new one while my dad still was, was living. Yeah. Because with his retirement, it was, he was still working as a therapist when this happened, but he also had retired previously. And so with all of that, we had to take advantage of it and go ahead and, and, and do all those things. And I had to help my mom with, with all of that. It was spent a lot of time at the hospital and rehab. Then he came home. And I'm the one who called like care.com or whatever it was. Yeah. To have home health care folks come in. Yeah. And I'm the one who handled his transportation by ambulance a few hours down south where we can move to here. And all these other things, um, my mom would not have been able to do that. And she also would not have been able to do the physical labor of it. And I think you know, this is what happens sometimes. Carey, everything rarely ever has no effect on the other aspects of your life. And there's this, that's just what we had to do. I'm very thankful for my wife for being supportive of that. Yeah. And thankful that she had a good job. And, uh, we all now live here together. She and I got a separate house. And it's about 10 minutes away from my mom. And that's, that's where we are now. And in the, yeah, I think I'm just early. My dad died two weeks after they moved it down here. So, so I want to fill in some space in between. So, so I heard you say, you know, your dad has a stroke after heart surgery, during after mid potentially a second one. And they're trying to repair it. He goes through rehab you and your wife were living with your mom. How old are your parents at that point? A few of them. One, uh, that's good. My dad was said, my dad was 71 and my mom is three years younger than him. Yeah. So, there's still fairly young. We call that young. We still call that young. I think when you're like in your 20s, you're like, wow, 70s, old or 60s, they're old. Now we're, I mean, I'm 48 and I'm like, that's not old. Very young. I'm like, it is young because our mom is 70, my mom is 70. And so it was weird when she just turned 70. I'm like, wow, I still think my mom is not young. It's not older. And not in our quote unquote, old, right? In our young lines. And so, you know, so you, so your dad does rehab you, it's interesting because you all decided to sell the home. Was this a convert, was this a family decision? Did you all start having family planning meetings or who started to naturally take the lead? Did your older brother let you take the lead? And he was like, and you were a consult like, what did that look like? Cause family dynamics with this kind of stuff, people get funny about it because people get funny about money. Let's have some uncomfortable conversations. You know, I mean, like people will be like, well, if you're a mom's home, what's gonna happen? And you're not letting them, you're living there for free. Well, look at you. You know, you know, I mean, cause people will listen to this and be like, Oh, I'm fortunate. I didn't have to have that. And then there's some people that are like, they squabble over everything. Yeah. So who was the natural lead with you guys? Tell me about family planning there in that time. Well, I'll answer a little bit differently. Sure. Um, I think that there are a few different variables that are relevant in how things were handled. I've already given you one. A brother and I are very, very close and we're, we're excellent at getting through any kind of conflict that we have. And I have a lot of pride in that. I think that's a great thing too. I say that respectfully, Jacob. I think that's a boy thing too. Well, that's my second point is having a PhD in gerontology. That's, that's the field that I know the most in, right? Yeah. And, and, and so I should be an expert in this. And so I just, I was just straight up with my brother like, listen, these kinds of situations often tear families apart. We need to both acknowledge that's a possibility here. So let's put it on the table and realize, listen, this is a real thing that happens to a lot of people. Let's not be that way. And I mentioned to him that maybe it's a good thing that we're both males because caregiving largely falls to females. And it's, it's, well, let's just take the positive out of this and, and, and do the best that we can with that. And, and, and a third set of variables is, I'm used to the hospitals with my extended family as well. By this point, let's see, I had lost all but three of all, but one of my grandparents and he's still alive like I said earlier. He's 96. And I had already lost my mom's sister also has heart disease and various other folks. And when my, when my mom's siblings were all still living, they were dealing with these issues with their father who had dementia. And we also had helped my dad's, my dad's dad deal with these issues with his wife who also died from dementia in her early 90s. And so we had, we had a decent amount of experience. We had my background in the Jaron Pology. We had the fact that we're just accustomed to having these conversations and that we're really good with being honest and open with one other. At least when it comes to my brother and me. And, you know, we just decided, listen, all these have the potential for strength. Let's make sure we use these as strengths rather than weaknesses. And my brother, my brother could not do a lot of the day-to-day things because he was down here. And once everything, once a dust is settled and we removed everyone down here, he was basically just like, listen, I acknowledged that you had to change your plans. Thank you very much for doing that. My wife and I are grateful and we're going to pick up some of the slack now. And I think that for the most part, it's, it's, it's gone okay. Yeah. You know, that is so insightful. I'm so, I think what you just say, because I give, you know, good relationship, Jaron, colleges, open communication, because I don't want our female friends to be like, Natalie, don't be sexist, but I'm going to tell you, you know, but what I heard really was you called it for what it was. Jacob, it's an elephant in the room. This situation can tear a family apart. Let's not anybody sugarcoat it. You know, look, this is going to be a difficult situation. It's going to be hard, but let's get through it and let's get through it with strength and not with, you know, destroying our family. And I think sometimes as females, most females, that we're like, we really want to fix it and make it soft. And I think if any of us get worried, yeah, we want everybody to be happy. That's my problem. I think if we can all address it, so many of us can learn, look, it's hard. Say the fact that it is hard for, I'm mad through this. I'm mad about this, and that I'm not mad at mom. Yeah, but it is mad about this or I'm not, I'm mad. Yeah, it's a hard thing. And I think for you to be able to say that and for anybody listening to say, recognize it for what it is and then do your best to get through it. I think that's really insightful. Yeah, go ahead. I do want to comment on the sex and gender part of it here from moment. First of all, I don't think that is a sexist statement to say these things because the data bear it out. Yeah, thank you, Jacob. I would like to say that Jacob has his PhD in gene ontology. Yeah, so we have a subject matter expert also in Jacob. So Jacob just put on his gene ontologist hat. Yes, thank you, Jacob. Thank you, Jacob. Keep going. And I'm also, you know, being a social worker, I've taught courses on it and the social justice and health disparities are a central part of that line of work. Yeah, and I'm just going to be really honest here for a moment. First of all, I'm very blunt with my personality and there are a lot of times I just had to say, listen, mom, this is how it's going to be get over it. And she had this attitude of, I just have to do this. Like this, I just have to do this. And something, I offer a lot of pushback when I speak to caregivers or about caregiving. And I'll say a few different things when I talk to people about this first of all, there's a reason they tell you on airplanes to put your eyes to mask on before you help anyone else do it. You are no good to whom you're caring for if you bury yourself in the ground in the process of doing it. And it's hard for people to hear that. And I think that there are two reasons why it's hard and they are on opposite ends of the coin. But I think it seems counterintuitive what I'm about to say, but I believe that it's true. On the one hand, um, caregivers definitely acknowledge like, wow, this is really, really difficult. They may not acknowledge as someone else because something like 30 to 50% of caregivers at work don't tell their colleagues about it because out of embarrassment, but they will definitely tell themselves, this is really, really difficult. On the other hand, I think that there's this sense and I'm always a little bit hesitant to say this because I don't know if it's going to, you know, hit the wrong way, but no one's ever disagree with me this. So I'm going to keep saying it. There is this sense. And I think that it is stronger among women. It is a very centuries old gendered thing. There's this sense of, this is my responsibility. And I'm going to wear the fact that I'm sacrificing myself on the altar of martyrdom as a badge of honor. And I think that that serves as an obstacle to getting more help and support and being willing to ask other people for that. And that is something that exists in our society. It probably exists in humanity overall. These are, and if I summarize all that I just said, it's with this caregiving is in no way shape or form at any time a simple matter is always multiple sets of variables. It is a complex dynamic. And if we're not willing to acknowledge that, then we're not going to be able to move forward in a good way. Okay, I'm going to get all of my pre-knock. I got to hold on. Jacob took us to church for a second. He did. And I'm not going to lie to you. We do have to take a break because this is good. And I'm going to tell you, I think it's an implicit, I don't think it's explicit. And when I say implicit, I think that that what you're talking about, Jacob, and for that folks are like, what is she talking about? I think what Jacob was talking about, especially with the on the throne of martyrdom. I don't think some people realize they're doing it. And I think the part of it, is they're doing it because of their past experiences to make up for something that is unresolved. Killed. Well, it's, it's also, could I talk to gender norms? It's gender norms that's into us for, for centuries. There's no battle. Yes, yes. Okay, okay. Hold it. You're going to do a question, but I'm going to take one break. We'll take a break. Five seconds will be right back. I got you. Jacob, I love you. You're my best friend. Okay. Hey ladies, I need to interrupt for just a second to share about the sisterhood membership. It's basically a sale every day. And the best part, it's free. Here's the details. We're partnering with our friends at BenefitHub and other care partners to save you money. With over 200,000 participating companies across the US and abroad, you'll find discounts at your favorite local stores, huge savings on vacations, amazing deals on home, auto and supplemental insurances, and everything in between. Go to confessionsofarovluxingcaregiver.com to sign up and then definitely tell your friends about it. They can join too. Trust me, there's a discount for everyone and don't forget it's free. Okay, back to compessing. All right, everybody, we're back here with Dr. Jacob Kendall. Okay, it's my turn to get us another question. You get one question back. That's it. That's my one question. You have got like this wealth. This is amazing knowledge, but I'm going to ask this because we have professionals that have come along before. So you're a gerontologist. That is your educational background. You're a caregiver. Years. Tell me how does which do you feel like you've learned the most from? Like where does your education from? Well, I want to mention the third piece. No, in fact, I've had two open heart surgeries, right? I have life flowing experience in being a patient. And so I've learned to hold just all the hundreds of encounters I've had with various medical specialists. I have learned tips and tricks and strategies and hacks to squeeze more juice out of our medical care. And now what I want to do is share that with other people, whether that's patients themselves or the caregivers who were taking those patients to their appointments and helping them comply with their medications, et cetera. So I probably would have to say that all of all of that is mutually reinforcing, but I have been a patient for much longer than I've been an educated person. So I can't, I just can't deny the deep, deep impact of having these personal experiences. If I had to say anything, that's been my main classroom. You're right. You're totally right because lived experience and Jacob, you know, this is so important. It's the lived experiences that inform who we are and the decisions that we will make. And it's no different than individuals who have experienced trauma. It's your past experiences that make up who we are. You know, Jacob said something that was really saucy that I was like, I want to dive into that a little bit. He said, he said tips, tricks and hacks and squeeze. I'm like, um, what's that? I'm like, go ahead. Keep going. Everybody's like, everybody's like, I'm like, I'm like, don't go away, girls. Jacob, give us tips, tricks, hacks and squeezeies. I said tips, tips, tips, tricks, strategies and hacks in words to squeeze more juice out of your tips, we can squeeze you so it's okay. Yeah, all right. That's my favorite part of the expression anyway. So to start that, just part of the conversation, I'll say this, that my mom and I, we both have, you know, hard disease and we both have complex medical needs that have different providers. And so we're regularly telling one another about our appointments and we're like, hey, I saw this doctor. This is what he said. This is what I, you know, whatever. And there are many times where she is like, you said that to your doctor and I'm like, you're damn right. I did. Yeah. We need to be more assertive and we need to be better self advocates for ourselves. And I think there's this notion, especially probably with older adults, especially that what physicians say is biblical truth. And I'm like, no, reach, no, no, no, what's backup a little bit and reevaluate that statement. I've learned so much about medicine in my conditions and health from other sources. And I'm not demonizing medicine is an excellent tool. It has saved my life at least twice, but it is a tool and there are other tools out there. I'm a member of a, and a Facebook group for people who are also on more for anyone who have had their valve replaced. And we all share our experiences with one another and they are times when I learned something from that group and then I told my doctor, like, hey, I heard this and they're like, oh, yeah, that's a good idea. I'm not familiar with that. Oh, wow. We need to change our treatment plan because of this question that I wouldn't even know if you hadn't asked me. That's all right. So those are the cut some of the the strategies that I give, okay? The on the soft skill side, you need to be more assertive. You need to have better self advocacy for yourself because some of your providers are probably good, but others are just trying to show you through like you're on a factory. What is what is the factory? Yeah, conveyor belts. Yeah. Yeah. Like the burning surely. Yeah, old we are. Yeah. And like you need to be prepared to ask those questions. And then there are these tips and tricks, the practical things that you can do like in my and the notes app on my iPhone, I have a note that specifically for medical questions for my providers. And whenever I think of one, I write it down because I'm probably not going to see them again for a few months. And I'm going to forget that question and then I go in there and I have these questions written down and then I ask them those questions and I type out their response to them. So I'm not going to forget it. And it also makes the appointment more efficient. And then I'm talking to caregivers. I'm like, are you going to the appointments with your parent or with whomever you're caring for? Because you should, you should do that. And you know, I set an alarm every morning and every evening to make sure I take my meds. Okay. Simple things like this. I recently spoke to someone who she, she, she's an older woman and she wanted to know like, hey, I just have a couple of quick questions and I'm not going to go into the details, but I told her two suggestions and those two suggestions seem so obvious to me, but it just doesn't cross the minds of a lot of people because they're dealing with all kinds of stuff. And so most of the things that I could sit here and tell you are just really simple. But we have so much clutter in our mind that they're, you know, we don't, we all bother to think of them. So hopefully that kind of answered your question. I know I know I gave a couple of specifics, but those are the kinds of conversations that I have. So I think I'm glad you got, we got to the squeezy. But I think, let me ask you this because I feel like Jake is going to end up coming back because Jake is mom, I'm interested in the in the second half and then I'm interested in your grandfather too and how you're trying to navigate that. I mean, I think there's so much, there's a lot of stuff. It's like Paul, Paul, Patass, his stashening is this week's guest and he's he seems you guys would be friends. I'm going to tell you took care of his mom took care of his dad. Now he's got an aunt. I mean, we were like, he might be a three timer because it's like and he's learned from every experience. So how long was your dad home? Like what, what, what as your dad transition? Because there's a difference when you're think about the tasks that you're doing when your dad was in rehab. So I'm assuming he was in rehab. He was doing getting coming back together. That's a different type of caregiving responsibility versus when he moved back home. What was that like? Well, I probably would have been okay with a family member not being in the facility with him in his room. I would have been more okay with the being less time than my mom wanted to be, but if she was going to go insist and stay there over the night, I'm like, you don't even do that. I'm younger. I'll be the one to go stay there overnight because obviously, wasn't going to get any sleep. And so it was a lot of back and forth trading out with my mom to go sit with him. And I did not want my wife to be involved in all of that because she's the one who's employed. She's one that has a job. Let's her just focus on that. So it was large in my mom and me doing that kind of thing. His friends regularly came to visit some people from our from their church regularly came to visit. So there was a lot of that. And then it was spinning the day. Well, another thing is when we were there, we had to advocate sometimes on his behalf, especially in the nighttime shifts when they don't have as many people like, hey, I want to talk to the nurse. I want to know more. I want to know the details that are going on. When can we be here? When is the doctor going to be here? When can we have a medicine? I'm meeting with that person. There's always a social worker in the facility and I have a social worker degree. So I can kind of speak that language, right? And I wanted to then to tell us things that they wouldn't have told us that we didn't ask for them. And then while we were not there, you know, I was helping my mom with all the, we met at multiple meetings within attorney. We went up to visit my dad's dad a few different times and just all these all these different things, playing it with the real estate agent to come look at their house, to sell it. And we tried to do a lot of these things before he came home because we knew that was going to take more of our time. Does that answer the question? Yeah. And so you've got that. Okay, then your dad comes home. And then what happens? My mom was very concerned about being able to afford the care, caregiving, totally understandable to that's the case. That stuff will suck you drive financially and in every other way. But I told her, mom, you cannot do this. Her response was, but I have to and I might know the first thing that you need to focus on is that you can't. All right. And so I'm the one who hired all the different caregivers and kept in touch with them and whatnot. I don't, she didn't want to do any of that. And I think that it pushed him to shove. She would have done it. But she was very thankful to have me around to take care of those things. And while he was home, we did not have them sit with him at night. We could not have them all there all the time. And so we were still having to do things turn him over to change change and stuff like that. You know, you can't have everything. Yeah. I just wanted just to have as much as we possibly could. Plus I had to take care of since they, since they did an open house with their house to sell it. The pull out back was really dirty. So I had to get someone to come clean that had to, you know, we had to clean out their garage. My dad, I mean, he was a pack rat. So this week, the yard sale, I was a lot of work, a lot of work. Trust me. We know that. Yeah, multiple trips to the thrift store to take everything we didn't sell in the yard sale. And it's all these different things. And yeah, we obviously had less time to deal with that because he was at home, you know. And then I'm going to ask for what I can't believe we're right up against our time because we got to do sister questions. We've got like a handful of minutes, but because we're going to have you come back, Jacob. I've got so many more questions and now you're officially our brother. Yeah. So you never had sisters. So let your older brother know, hey, you got competition. But how is your marriage at that time? Because remember, you were newly married and your wife's working and you're doing a bunch of stuff for you and your mom, like, how did that, how did that be? You think impacted your marriage? In a positive way. And I'm fortunate that we had the foundation there to begin with. In like a three-year period, I had my second heart surgery decided to leave my 10-year-old job started three businesses. Got married, cared for my dad, lost my dad, moved twice and had our first child. And at some point, my wife half jokingly said, you know what? We should start a business where we help young couples and young professionals handle these kinds of situations that come up. And after a while, I was like, you know what? I don't think that should be a joke anymore. Yeah. There was a lot of, I'm very lucky to have her. Yeah. I love her. Wait, what's her name? Because we haven't even said Emily. Oh, it's Emily. Oh my god. It's our sisters. Same as our sister. Okay, so we automatically love Emily. Let her know that too. She's from the Jewish family. So I'll just ask your question. Has to do with Emily. Okay. So Emily and Jacob, so tell me how everything has impacted your planning for the future. Because you got to have two kids. And you've, what does your future look like because of your past? How's it impacted your planning? Yeah. We already have life insurance policies. Americans are terrible at planning ahead. And she and I were like, we're not going to fall into this trap. We directly observed the effects that it has on a family when the fact that my mom did not, I mean, my dad did not plan a lot of this very well. We're like, we are not going to fall into that. And her parents have helped this use as well. And so we're, you know, we're getting it from both sides and we're like, we know, we know we need to plan better for these things. We've already had conversations about what something happens to us. Who we're going to put in line to care for our children. Yeah. She is way better at saving money than I am. So that's a good thing. Yeah. It's mostly having these conversations. I've experienced more death in my family than she has. I do feel like that's going to make me equipped when that starts happening with her because I've just seen, you know, a good bit of it. And, you know, a lot of it, a lot of it boils down to the willingness to just put this on the table out in the open, don't ignore it. I still know people who were in their 60s and 70s and 80s who were absolutely refused to talk about their own eventual death. And I'm like, the more that we embrace our mortality, the higher quality of in quantity of life that we have, that is a message that I want to drill into everyone. So, but whatever the reality is or whatever the reality is, one day, going to be put it on the table and be willing to have that conversation. Yeah. And we would be in a much better society. Right. You know what? Jacob is like, well, why is beyond his years? He's just a baby. He is a puppy. And he's going to have a baby in December. But, um, okay, so I've got one more question because this is always the favorite question. It's always my question. And David, Jake, my hasn't talked about it at all. I know. Jacob, what is your favorite guilty pleasure? What is the one thing that you do just for yourself? Yeah. I remember that time I told you that there wouldn't be any questions even in the answer to. I have such wide-ranging interests. Like, what's the one thing that you would be like, oh, I love doing that. Like, that one thing, if you could do it. I don't have as much time to these days because I have to read for other reasons, but I love nerding out on quantum mechanics and in all behavior and evolution, things like that. That is the best that I have ever heard is nerding out, I think, was the best part. But then whatever the book is, I think, and I don't even sure I can spill quantum physics, but I like to get there. I can get there. You know what, Jacob, we love you. You are absolutely the best. I am having you, we are having you come back. And we might even say, bring your brother. And so, we're in the open. Oh, we were in the open. Yeah, everything. I mean, what's in the whole thing? What's that? And so, you know what, I think it would be, I think, I'm Jacob, we'd love to have you come back, because I think you're a toofre. Yeah. I think that you've got so much more wisdom, and I think there's more things that you have to say that we need to hear. Yeah. And I know we didn't get to, I want to hear more about your mom, I want to hear about your grandfather and how you're Brandon around that. And you know, even your brother, I think talking, I think having your brother come back and talking about what it's like to have that pressure because he's got care for his own family and feeling responsible to you because he loves you. He loves you as a brother. Very clearly, your family definitely, no matter all the, we all have dysfunction, but you love each other and you're caring for one another. And yeah, we're having you come back. Okay. Well, he doesn't go choice. Now, he has no free will. Jacob, thank you so much. You know what? Yeah, sounds good. I enjoyed the chat. I look forward to seeing you. Yeah. Sorry guys. Guys, thank you so much for listening to Confessions. And until we confess again, we'll see you next time. Bye bye. Well, friends, that's a wrap on this week's confession. Thanks so much for listening into the podcast. But before you go, please take a moment to leave us a review and tell your friends about the Confessions show. Don't forget, visit our website to sign up for our newsletter, as well as connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Pinterest and Twitter. You'll also find the video reporting of all our episodes on the Confessions website and our YouTube channel. We'll see you next Tuesday when we come together to confess again. Till then, take care of you. Okay, let's talk discolamers. We are not medical professionals and are not providing any medical advice. If you have medical questions, we recommend that you talk with a medical professional of your choice. As always, my sisters and I at Confessions of our electing caregiver have taken care in selecting the speakers, but the opinions of our speakers are theirs alone. 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