Unbreakable Bond: How a Father's Love Transcends Adversity

Thom Deleuw's story reflects dedication and a father's love. After a 34-year career in law enforcement, Thom found his true purpose when his son, Jack, had a serious motorcycle accident that left him paralyzed from the chest down. Thom became Jack's full-time caregiver, viewing it as a "willing obligation" that highlights their strong bond.

Thom's journey has been marked by resilience and adaptability. He prepared for the “new role” by taking online courses and utilizing the VA caregiver support program, ensuring he was equipped to provide the specialized care Jack required. Despite the challenges, Thom maintains a positive outlook, emphasizing that the work doesn't "seem so bad" when you're caring for someone you love so deeply. His willingness to take on the role, rather than outsourcing it, speaks volumes about his unwavering commitment to his son's well-being.

Throughout their journey, Thom and Jack have faced setbacks, including a second motorcycle accident that left Jack paralyzed from the sternum down. Yet, their unbreakable spirit shines through, with Thom expressing pride in Jack's determination to regain his mobility and independence. The duo's shared sense of humor and camaraderie have been instrumental in navigating the ups and downs, demonstrating the power of a father-son relationship rooted in unconditional love and support.

About Thom:

Thom was born on December 8, 1954, in Norfolk, Virginia, and was raised in a middle-class family where hard work was valued. After spending his early years in Virginia, he moved to Florida for two years before returning to North Carolina, where he graduated from high school in Greensboro in 1973.

With aspirations of becoming a police officer, Thom joined the Army in November 1973 and attended military police school. His first duty station was in West Berlin, Germany, during the time the Berlin Wall was still up, which proved to be a significant adventure.

After three years, Thom returned home, briefly pursued a golf career, and worked as an assistant golf pro before becoming a police officer in Portsmouth, Virginia. In 1984, he moved back to North Carolina, where he began his long and rewarding career in law enforcement, eventually meeting his wife while on duty.

Thom's life took another turn when he became a dedicated father to his son, Jack. Their bond deepened over the years, especially after Thom gained full custody when Jack was 12. Jack followed in his father's footsteps and enlisted in the Army, embarking on his own journey that included both triumphs and challenges.

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Hey guys, it's

Natalie: 0:01

your favorite sisters here with the confessions of her electing caregiver podcast. On the show, you'll hear caregivers confessing the good, the bad and the completely unexpected. You're guaranteed to relate, be inspired, leave with helpful tips and resources and, of course, laugh. Today's episode is part of our special series, heroes caring for heroes. We're partnering with the Fisher House Foundation to highlight our brothers and sisters in care who are courageously sharing their caregiving journey for both seen and unseen scars of military life and war. Now let's jump right in to today's hero confession, you make me feel like dancing. I knew.

JJ: 0:46

I knew I want to dance the night away.

Unknown: 0:48

You make me

Natalie: 0:50

I'm sorry we were, we were singing this before we started, I know, and having a very thorough conversation about the lyrics, yeah. And honestly, it's just overrated to have the words, but we're here for a podcast today. We are, and this is a very special series. It is. We're not going to dance. We're not going to dance. But this is the heroes caring for Heroes series which recognizes our active duty service members and veteran caregivers of these individuals. And today we have an amazing guest. Wait before I even get to the guests, that's awesome. Recognize CVS, CVS Health. I want to recognize Tenna. Thank our leading incontinence brand, who is also supporting this program and care forward also. And so we've got a couple of folks that are helping to bring this to everybody. But I want to get to our guest today, because I'm ready. This gentleman is, is quite well. He is quite the person. And so now he's looking at me. Now everybody's gonna see your face, Tom, because when this is recorded on you, yeah. So you gotta, you gotta have to pretend like you're like, Oh, those sisters. I

Unknown: 2:03

love this. Oh yes, there's always wanted.

JJ: 2:08

So I will, I will say this caregiver is taking care of his son, and I think they've got a bachelor pad. I'm not sure. I'm gonna

Natalie: 2:14

tell you, in it nothing but time,

JJ: 2:16

I know. Let me tell you we have got Tom delue with us today. And I'm gonna say I don't even know where to start. We asked caregivers to send us a little background and their story. I'm pretty sure Tom that you've got a book like you need to write a book because, oh, my god, it's so funny. He's got a story. So Tom was raised in a middle class family. He joined the army after high school, and he spent 34 years in law enforcement. Yeah, there you go. I mean, that's his story. So much I know so but in that story, he said something. He said, The Night Jack was born was the night I found out why I was put on this earth. That's his son, Jack.

Natalie: 2:54

I love that sentence. It made me very emotional after having met Tom. And I thought, Oh, Tom, sweet.

JJ: 2:59

I know, I know you. I mean, that was, that's really sweet. And so that was in 1994 in 2022 Tom became the, became the full time caregiver for Jack, who, while stationed at Fort Bragg, suffered a motorcycle crash that left him paralyzed from the waist down. So how did, what's their sternum down? Oh, start them down. I'm sorry. So how did, how did Tom prepare for this? He took online courses, which I'd love to find out all the expectations and all of the things that were afforded to him through the VA caregiver support program. He used them as well. So today, Tom says being a full time caregiver for someone in a wheelchair is a lot of work, but it doesn't seem so bad when you're doing it and taking care of someone that you love so much. It's just kind of a willing obligation.

Natalie: 3:51

I love willing obligation. When you wrote that Tom it was, I thought, a willing obligation. I love it, it's, it's, it's a true thing, because you can say you can have an obligation and but you're willing to do that obligation. And so I love that, Tom, thank you so much for being on the show with us. We're so excited to have you.

Unknown: 4:13

Thank you very much. Glad to be here. Oh, awesome. So

Natalie: 4:16

we have, we've been chit chatting with Tom for quite some time, and he is quite the character. So we're all going to try to be on our a game for this one, guys. So because Tom is unbelievably hilarious, and we've been working this morning to get this started, and Jack has been even helping. Now Jack goes you call Jack Dugan, and so Jack is your son, and who you care for and who was in the military, we were

Unknown: 4:43

waiting for us to come back, yeah,

Natalie: 4:46

of course. So knew that was coming. I know, but, but I mean, if for our viewers and listeners, if you when you see these photos, there's. There's no denying this is a father and son dynamic, absolutely so. So Tom, why don't we start from the beginning? Tell us a little bit about your history, a little bit about family history. Kind of, kind of go through life and then bring us up to to Jack.

Unknown: 5:19

Okay. Well, I mean, my parents were from Massachusetts. My older sister and brother born Massachusetts, then they moved to Virginia, and that that's where my me and my little sister were born. So we lived there till I was nine. My dad was in sales, my mom was a homekeeper, um, we moved to Florida for two years, and then we came back to North Carolina, and that's where I went to junior high school, and then high school, and I wanted to be a police officer, but I didn't want to be a police cadet and just take reports and wash cards. So until I was I was 18, so until I was 21 I just didn't want to do that. So I joined the Army. So I joined the Army as a military and went in as a military policeman. Okay, in 1973 I went in, and then in 74 I got sent to Berlin, German West Berlin, that was still the wall up. Yeah, that was awesome, awesome. I mean, Ben, but 19 years old in Germany, yeah, great.

Natalie: 6:19

I'd say that laws, you were nothing but trouble. But keep going.

Unknown: 6:24

But then I was fortunate that I played in the golf tournament, and I did real well in the golf tournament, and this is where all the draftees were getting out, and the draftees were draftees working at the golf course. So I went for being an MP, and the w4 offered me a job as given given lessons. So I've worked at the golf course and then played golf all around Europe for the next two and a half years. Nothing. It was tough. It was tough, terrible, but a strong moral character that I have. So I got out of the army. I should have stayed in, but I got out of the Army, and I came home, went to college for a year at Elon, and then I turned pro. I turned teaching pro in Greensboro, North Carolina.

Natalie: 7:10

So you were sort of good at golf, not like, putt, putt.

Unknown: 7:14

Oh, yeah, real golf. Oh,

Natalie: 7:17

I mean, yeah, I'm pretty good. I'm pretty good at the miniature golf and up and down in Myrtle Beach. But anyway,

Unknown: 7:23

sure, I'm sure you. Thank

Natalie: 7:24

you. So did you sidebar here? Did you play in high school? Or when did you pick up golf? I'm just kind of general not remember.

Unknown: 7:32

I played football. I played football, basketball, baseball. I was baseball. I was pitcher. I loved baseball. My junior year, during the summer ball, I threw my arm out, and we didn't have the money or insurance to get my elbow fixed, yeah, so my senior year, I just played golf. Oh, and I mean, I played golf since I was six. My family were golfers, and so the it just, it just, it just got good to me. I played my senior year, and could have gone on with it, but I just, you know, want to be a policeman. Yeah, okay,

Natalie: 8:05

so you went into so you were actually a policeman in Virginia. Is that right for

Unknown: 8:11

when I, when I got out, and golf didn't work out, I played the golf tournament up in Virginia, and so I went back up to Virginia Beach, and I was staying with some friends, and they said, they said, I guess they wanted me out of the house, because they said, Well, what are you going to do? So? And I said, Well, I wanted to be a policeman. And they said, and so one of the girls said, well, Portsmouth is hiring. And I said, Well, what's a Portsmouth? And it's just a little town across the river. That's right. So I went over there and applied one day, about a week later, they hired. I bet

Natalie: 8:47

they did. P Town is a great place to work there if you want to cut your teeth into to policing. So having lived

Unknown: 8:54

there, yeah, that you talked about high point earlier, yeah.

Natalie: 8:57

So you were there for a couple of years, you get injured. And so I get, I

Unknown: 9:01

get hurt, and my mom, my mom wanted me to come home. Okay, so I went

Natalie: 9:06

home, yeah, and so, and then you're and then you're moving right along, yeah. And at some point you go back, you went back in the military for a window of time,

Unknown: 9:15

yeah, matter of fact, it was after Portsmouth. Yes. You think, yeah, thanks, yeah. That's right. When I after Portsmouth, when I left, I just, I went back in military, because there's an 81 Yeah, I went back in for three years.

Natalie: 9:26

It's so interesting. And I were talking about that, like, I don't know of many people that go out and then they're like, oh, this, come back for a while. And so I thought that was really interesting. And then you, you went on to a full time position in High Point right? You, you left and went into policing. That's where

Unknown: 9:44

I met. Well, when I got out of the Army, 94 I went back and I got hired with high point police, yeah, and that's, that's where it started my North Carolina career.

Natalie: 9:53

And that's where you, you, you were an officer for over 34 years, right? 34 Yes, ma'am, see, look at that. Wow, that was good. You have a good I do have me. I

Unknown: 10:02

worked in several ages. I worked high point, and I worked in Wilmington for eight years, and I worked on down towards Charlotte. So I've been, yeah, and I finally retired Elon down to Elon, Tommy,

JJ: 10:13

are other people in your family, members of the military? Is that Miami takes

Unknown: 10:19

my older brother was Army, and then he was in Vietnam. My older sister's husband was in the army, but he was officer. He didn't count. He was in Vietnam. He did. He never saw COVID. Then my my dad was Coast Guard reserved during World War Two.

Natalie: 10:38

So there's service in in near all his family, yeah, there's, there's, there's service. The really

Unknown: 10:43

cool thing was, when dude was nine years old, he just, you know he was going to the army, like, he didn't want to be like dad in Oklahoma. So Well,

Natalie: 10:54

the speech this speaks to though, when you because I know that you met your ex wife because she was also an officer. And then you all had Jack, who again, Dugan and but going back to what JJ, you said when we introduced it was the the day he was born, it was just like, that's your person. Like, I love that. And, and then, you know, that's what, that's why I think about like you said, Hey, Jack's been your person, and I see it in the images that will will be sharing of him growing up with you guys. So tell us about that like Jack. Jack decided at nine after I'm sure hearing you and your brother and other family members talking about that service, um, what? Why do you think that was the primary piece that he just wanted to because of everybody else? I love this?

Unknown: 11:50

Well, I yeah, I think so. I mean, he just, he was from the time he was born, he was either on my arm or on my shoulders. I mean, he was, he did learn to walk till he was full. He was, he was my baby, yeah, I mean, I, I took care of, I mean, Beth didn't have to do anything, really. I mean, she just, she just loved it because, I mean, I carried him everywhere. I mean, he was mine. I mean, all my I used to play softball and played a lot of golf. And when he came along. I just waited till he was old enough to swing the golf club, and I but I just, I'd get off work, and it was, it was us. I mean, we were just your best

Natalie: 12:28

buds. I love that. And so, so, you know, life is moving along, and I know that you got divorced at one point. And so it was you and Jack and and you and I feel like it's Tom and Jack against the world. To be honest, I do like I think that you guys had the most I just see you guys having lots of fun together. Because I can I get a sense of your relationship that way from the conversations we've had. So Jack turns graduates from high school and immediately enlists. Is that right?

Unknown: 12:59

Yes, ma'am. He um, he did. He did ROTC injury, ROTC all four years, and loved it. It. If it wasn't for that lacrosse, he probably wouldn't have got school. He, he just loved those two classes. Lacrosse wasn't the class. But did you feel like there's a funny lacrosse story? But I'm like, oh,

Natalie: 13:18

probably a good idea. Well, Houston was

Unknown: 13:21

a clean show. Yeah, it was really, it was just striking. But anyway, he, um, yeah, he graduated in June, and in July, he was in the army, and in following, April or May, he was in Afghanistan. So what? He went in quick and got there early. Yeah, what? I guess my question is, you had a good idea, especially with your brother being in Vietnam, you had a good idea of what he was getting into. You've been in the military as well. What are your thoughts when he says, I'm going in and then he gets, he gets sent to Afghanistan. What are you thinking as a dad and your best he's your best friend. Basically, I couldn't have been more proud. Such a sissy now, no, I couldn't have been more proud. He just, I mean, he was my kid. And, I mean, his mother had him from four and a half until he was 12. Then he came to live with me. Yeah. And I was, you know, I was a policeman. I was firearms instructor, taught rapid deployment, active shooter, which more officers need to take. And he, he just loved it. He just everything I did. He came with me when I worked off duty ball games. He'd come and sit with the cheerleaders. Because he was a cute

Natalie: 14:35

little kid. He was cute. I can verify that he was very cute, yeah.

Unknown: 14:39

But so he just, he had a good time. He had a good time with dad. And so everywhere I went, he went, well, and

Natalie: 14:44

I know that. And then you guys were separated, because I know when he went in, he went, he did tours abroad, and then, and then he got injured. And he didn't get injured in combat. He actually got injured while at home. And he had a motorcycle accident, and this was the first of two, yes, ma'am, so and that, I think, would you say that was your first stint as being that? You would say I was a formal caregiver for him at that point, because you gotta think about being a parent and caring versus I have a child that is injured and they need extra they need I've got to do extra support. I'm having to do extra things, if that makes sense. Well,

Unknown: 15:26

it does, and but it really wasn't that bad then, because what happened is they had been out in the field, and then they had a bunch of bunch of guys get together with their families, then a big get together at a dance club, not dance, but in Texas, yeah, what dance hall? So it was, it was late. It was late. It was like 230 in the morning. Everybody was leaving. He was on his motorcycle, and he was just off the backside of Fort Hood, Texas. And so he was go, just going back to the base. And He came with the upon a herd of cattle and meandering around in the road, yep. And so he thought he was looking at him. He was coming up on him. And then he saw on the left hand side already, saw a hole. Took a hole shot, and a 1800 pound steer just stepped out in front of him, wow. And he hit it right behind the hit it right behind the left front leg and went about halfway through it? Wow. And I killed the cow and shattered both his forearms, and he got real bad TBI, and they wanted to put him out, but he thought he wanted to stay in. So if he had two years of getting his arms fixed, two years rehabilitation, and that's where the night had happened, the next morning, his first sergeant called me and said, You know this first sergeant, I can't remember his name now. He says, Your son's been in an accident. I said, Oh, what happened? He says, Well, he he hit a cow. And then I said, Yeah, okay, here we go. Yeah, somebody's playing with me, yeah. And that then he reaffirmed. And so I was packing for a job, you know, doing construction work, and I just started repacking, and he said, we've talked to the Red Cross. We're going to get you out here. Wow. So, so I got out there to Texas that night and went saw him in the hospital. And dude, there's my son in the COVID.

Natalie: 17:18

That has to be the worst, one of the worst experiences of your life.

Unknown: 17:23

Yeah, he I didn't, I don't think I left the room, except for the bathroom for like three days, I just sat on the chair next to him, just rubbing his one arm was already cast, but the other arm they did know he'd broken it, and so I just sat there just rubbing his arm, just crying. It was

Natalie: 17:42

terrible. Now, was that?

Unknown: 17:44

Was this? That was his first scare, first time You scared me. Yeah,

Natalie: 17:48

did you, I believe you had shared with me. Was that the time that you stayed with at the Fisher House during that

Unknown: 17:55

Yes, ma'am, that place, they the Red Cross hooked us up with them. We're in. We're right now. We're up in Fort Hood. Then they, after 11 days, he started coming out of coma, so they moved him down to San Antonio. He was stable to move when, that's when they got us down. You know, they just hooked us up to Fisher House, and the Red Cross has been painted for a hotel room. I mean, the Red Cross is a wonderful thing. Yep. Fourth Red Cross,

Natalie: 18:21

yep, well, and, and just for our audience, he's new to the Fisher House. They're like the Ronald McDonald for military. That's the easiest way to say it. And they have over. They'll be opening their 100th Fisher House this year, right? And they are. Fisher houses are on military bases and near, near military hospitals to support families and who are connected to the military and while they're receiving treatments. So it's,

Unknown: 18:52

yeah, it's a phenomenal organization, those guys. I mean, I wouldn't, I mean, I couldn't afford it to stay in hotel. Yeah,

Natalie: 19:00

so Jay, I think we need to take a break. Just wait one second and we'll be right back.

Unknown: 19:05

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JJ: 20:18

all right, we're back here with Tom, and we've gotten to a pivotal point, because Jack has had his first motorcycle accident, Tom's bed, Fisher House and But Jack heals. He's got two years of rehab, and he he gets back to active duty. I know that is back.

Natalie: 20:35

And what does what does Jack do after in his first what is he reassigned to?

Unknown: 20:41

He goes well. He was a Calvary Scout, air a ground cavalry scout. He was a lay you know, that wouldn't matter planes, but he had been to just before the accident. In another month, he was going to come back to Fort Bragg, because he had been to jump school, airborne.

Natalie: 20:54

Yeah, so he gets

Unknown: 20:57

a lawyer. And they have, they have, he had to go through two other med boards, take a bunch of PT tests, Cognizant skills tests, and they let them. They let him stay in, yeah, so he, because

Natalie: 21:09

Jack loves the military. I'm sorry, Jack loves the military,

Unknown: 21:13

yeah. And he still wishes he was in, but anyway, but so yeah. So he comes back to Fort, Fort Hood or Fort Bragg, and, starts jumping out of airplanes.

Natalie: 21:24

That's that was the part that I really like. And I wanted our listeners and viewers to be able to get a sense of that Jack was just, Jack is a unique character, which I think is an extension of top Yes, honestly, and he gets a lot from his dad and but he's just, he's fearless in that. And nothing about a lot of our service members who are just, they give so much, and they're, they're fearless in that. And Jack's not going to stop living, because Jack still has a motorcycle, and so years go down the road. So let's jump to the next let's jump to the next scenario. So, because so life gets back into normal. Would you say that's right? Tom,

Unknown: 22:01

yeah, yeah. He was, he came down to Fort Bragg, he met, he met a girl. They, she moved in, they were going to get married. Then he had this second accident. He's jumping out airplanes. He had 35 jumps before he got, you know, before he got hurt. And, um, loved, love jumping out airplanes. Love being a cab scout. Loved the army stuff, yeah. And then, so then when this accident happened, she was really ironic this because his fiance was going through she was going to be occupational therapist. And so, you know, this was perfect. And she, she told me when we first saw her, but when I came down to see him, and she said that I'm staying with my love, awesome. I said that's a lot of work. When

Natalie: 22:44

this he had another accident, right? He had another correct accent, yeah, he came.

Unknown: 22:48

He came down. Here he was. He went out, drove his motorcycle out to have dinner. Then he went to the uh, store where his fiance work, talked to her, said, I'm going to go home play with the dogs. And so he left there. He was just meandering. He's like, says, excellent motorcycle rider, and he knew not to get tickets. He's never gotten a ticket. So he's just meandering down 50 mile an hour road, and old man backs out of a driveway in front of him. He forces him off the road to the left. He goes into a ditch, you know, went over tea kettle, landed on the back of his neck and hitting shoulders, and his t7 vertebrae burst right up between his shoulder blades, and from there, he was paralyzed from the sternum down. Surgery went great. It didn't, it didn't sever his spinal cord, but the surgery went great. They fused the six and eight, and now they're just waiting. They said he should, because he's young, he said he should. Who could walk again? But it's, it's hard to say whether the nerves reconnect or what. Yeah, so,

JJ: 23:52

so we're like, so, so that's the second phone call that you get, and you're like, so what happens with that call? I'm kind of curious. Are you thinking he's going to be fine. There's I've got no worries this time, because he was fine. He's healed up. So from the first one, what are you thinking with this one? Jack, I'm taking your motorcycle, or how's this working?

Unknown: 24:10

He's a grown man. Yes, I want him to I can't take away from him what I have? Yeah, yeah, because I still have, I still have the bike. So my older sister asked me, since, well, are you going to get rid of your bike? Now, I said I didn't wrap my bike.

JJ: 24:26

That's true. But with that phone call, I mean, what, what is your mindset? There? Are you thinking, you know, he's going to heal up fine? Is that kind of what your future is looking like? Well,

Unknown: 24:37

that's what I was hoping. Yeah. I mean, when I got the phone call, it. And then I, you know, when I came down, I found out the extent of the injuries, and spoke to the doctors and found out everything. So it's just a, it's a day to day thing. I mean, he's, he's goes the Richmond VA, where they all the spinal place is. And, you know, one doctor will say, Well, you're, you are, where you are. Then the other doctors, no, we have hope. Yeah. And so, I mean, he has volunteered to go anywhere to do stems. He'll, he'll, he'll throw his body at it. He just says, I just want a walking Wow.

Natalie: 25:08

And that's understandable. He says, I'm not done. Yeah, well, and I definitely think he's not done. I think he's doing lots of great things, though. So I think so he's with, he's got the fiance and you had mentioned this just a second ago, and that they were together for a year, she said she was going to stick with it, and then she decided this is not for me.

Unknown: 25:32

Yeah, yeah. Well, she, she, she wanted further career. She was managing a Walgreens, and want to do this other stuff. And she was, she was resurfaced, so she went, she doing back to schools, and did, did what she's done, and she's off, you know, doing, doing her thing. And, you know, good for

Natalie: 25:47

her, yeah. But somebody has to help Dugan, right?

Unknown: 25:51

I'm sorry, somebody

Natalie: 25:52

has to help Dugan, though, at this point, she's leaving. And what's the conversation with you guys?

Unknown: 25:59

Well, I could see the thing, you know, because I come down and see him whenever I could, and I could just see that there just wasn't anything there that's just for, you know, I just thought through too because, you know, he, he's wondering, you know, what's going to happen. You know who's going to take care of me, or who's going to help me out, and I take care of him, but who's going to help him out? So the one time I came down, she I was coming out of the shower, she's standing in the hallway, and she just says, We need to talk. And I just looked out. I said, When are you leaving? And that kind of caught her off guard. But then she just says, I just can't do. I said, I It doesn't whatever you have to do you wouldn't do. But I said, Can you give me until March so I can quit work, because now I was doing construction now. And she said, yeah, so I went to work and called her boss and said, I'm out of here end of the month. I said, I gotta go down to take care of Duke. And everybody just and everybody knew him, they just said, Yeah, you got to do that, yeah? So it

JJ: 27:02

was never a second. You're just like, done. No. Thought about it. No hiring anybody else to help. Nothing like that. You're like, Oh, I'm going done. No,

Unknown: 27:10

no, because the things that had to be done with him, you know, some of his medical treatments and stuff, I wouldn't want anybody else doing that to my son. Yeah, you know when, when he was in the hospital, the nurse would come in and say, Jack, you're good. You shower. He said, Well, I'll be right back to help you with your shower. And I said, I'll do this. Yeah, I got that because then he just looked me. Said, are you sure? I said, Well, you're not going to wash them as good as I will. I've been watching for a long

Natalie: 27:38

time for all those reasons, you know, I think so you guys move in, and how does it go? As you expect, like your first so now you're going into the full time caregiver role with him, and I very much see this. I appreciate that you said I don't take care of him, you know, I support him. I help him where he needs help, because a lot of people and my husband would be the same way. Would be like, you know, I just need you to help me. I don't want you to take care of me. Because there's a different connotation to that. Even though the definition is still there, I want to empower the person that I'm helping caring for. I want them to feel like they can do things, because I'm assuming you don't do everything for Jack, I think that he does some of his own things. He's independent in that sense. How do you find that balance? He

Unknown: 28:30

won't, he won't let me a lot of stuff. He just and that I get ticked off at him because I said, do that. I'll get that. He goes, I got it, Dad, no, it's just this stuff, like, you know, doing dishes because the counters are high. And, yeah, he's in the wheelchair. So he says, I got it. And, I mean, he's very proud. He sees, yeah, you're not going to push him around. And, I mean, in all the cycling he does, to the wounded warriors and Valor Games, all the stuff, and from the chest, from what he's gotten, he's got control up. He is a hoss. I mean, he's got arms. You don't want to grab him, because he'll pull you down into that wheelchair, because he's, but he's, he's a very prideful kid. And just, you know, he does everything you can, but there's just some stuff you can't. So, and I'm just here for that, and I guess you're going to ask about the caregivers thing, how I got into that and stuff, yeah, so I don't people keep on, yeah, I got down here and I don't know, I don't know how I got involved with the I think do the mind says something to me about caregivers being a caregiver. So I called the caregiver number and talked to them, and a young lady just helped me out. They turned me on to this. You have to take this course. You take read a bunch of stuff, watch videos, and then take tests, a couple of tests you have to take. Then they sign you up. They send you a letter that allows you to go into the on base and go to the PX. I mean, it's, it's a great organization. They help you out financially if you need it, and there's a lot of support. Work there probably three, four times a week, they'll send an email offering you to listen in on moral support, you know, financial support classes. I mean, they're all the time trying to help if you want the help or if you need the help,

Natalie: 30:15

yeah. And this is the Virgin the veterans caregiver supporter, yeah. So let me ask you this. So you move in. How long have you and Dugan lived together in this in this relationship? Oh, here,

Unknown: 30:29

I moved in here, march, march of 22

Natalie: 30:31

so you guys are a little over two years. And what would you say is the challenging part? And when I say that, for example, a challenging part for JJ and I and our younger sister Emily is the relationship trying to maintain our relationship with our mom as daughters and not and try not to be because we've seen a role reversal with our mom, for example. Now mind you, you're the parent and he's the son, so there's that. And I don't know if you ever pull that card on him, like, I'm your dad. Like, how does that role like between caregiver and dad?

Unknown: 31:10

Well, I really don't look, I don't even think about the caregiver thing. I mean, I'm just, I'm here with him, yeah. I mean, it's like, back in high schools, except now he's in a wheelchair, yeah, um, but he's, he's independent. He's, you know, he's been his own man. He's been to war. He's, you know, he's got all his own stuff. He's grown up, yeah, but every once in a while I gotta say, you know, I feel like more of a friend than a father. I said, Why do you make me be a dad? Why can't you just, let's just get along? What? Because we're both stubbornness crap.

Natalie: 31:42

I am shocked by that. I

JJ: 31:43

know I am too. A lot of people are

Unknown: 31:45

a lot you gotta I think around us and get to

Natalie: 31:47

notes. Yeah, really, so, but don't that's

Unknown: 31:51

a hard thing to do, yeah?

Natalie: 31:54

But I think, you know, I think I'm assuming you all still have normal like frustrations with each other. And sometimes you get everybody needs to go to their separate corner. I do that with even with my own husband, when he was sick, he did with mom. I do that with mom. We do it with our mom. Yeah, and so. And I think that's normal. So, you know, I think, well, one I think before I go into this, I'm going to take a break real quick. Yes, I'm actually going to take a break because we were late on my last one. We'll be right back. Hey,

Unknown: 32:27

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Natalie: 33:02

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JJ: 33:40

Alright, everybody, we are back here with Tom, and we're getting into some stuff. So Tom and Jack, they're, they're doing great. They are living together. They've been living together since 2022, that's right. But we want to talk about, is there any, like, frustrating moments, like, because, first of all, it's, you know, my parent, your parent role. But then secondly, you guys are living together like I remember, I moved back in with mom and dad for a short period of time as an adult. Yeah, yeah. Tell me about are there frustrating times for you guys?

Unknown: 34:13

Not really. I mean, I guess if I were younger, it would make a difference, because I would probably want more of a social life now that at my age, you know, I just, I just, this is me. This is what I do. And I I get Not, not frustrated. I don't think that's the correct word, because I meant to sound like a big deal, yeah, is like, I've got this new motorcycle, and I just don't get to ride it, because I'm in faith when there's just not a good place around here to ride, because we used to ride, because we used to go to the mountains all the time. So, you know, I don't ride, but we shoot. We do a lot of shooting, yeah, um, he does a lot of cycling. And, you know, we have a few places that we like go, have a friendship,

Natalie: 34:57

otherwise known as bars. We can. Say totally appropriate. Totally appropriate. It's not a wordy dirt. So, okay,

Unknown: 35:05

okay, we got, we got some really good bars. So

JJ: 35:08

I'm gonna ask you a hard question, at least it's a hard thing for me to talk about with my mom. I get it's, I look at the life that could have been, and I do get frustrated about my mom, like, I'm like, when you said about riding motorcycles, like, I always think about the things I wanted to do with my mom, and now that she has Parkinson's and we can't get out a lot, what crosses your mind when you think about, I want Dugan and I to go on motorcycle rides. How do you deal with those things? Tom, do you think about that frequently? Or,

Unknown: 35:39

well, we still tried to do we, I mean, there's a lot of things we want to do. And, you know, we wanted to do the four corners on motorcycles, yeah. And, you know, we always talked about a lot of trips, but he was in the army to take a good trip. He couldn't take enough leave, right? So, um, but now it's just, you know, he's busy with, you know, recycling and stuff like that. But, like, we want to go to Biltmore, and then now this terrible hurricane thing went through Biltmore. There's there's things we want to do and think places we want to go, because we just, and he is so funny about being in the wheelchair. I mean, he's just, a lot of people just get set back, but because the things he'll say, you know, they, well, excuse me. Said, hey, if I'm in your way, just pushed me out of the way, roll me out of the way. He's just, I don't know he's he's an idiot. I don't

Natalie: 36:28

know what he's got. He makes it comfortable. It's his way of making it comfortable for him, yeah, like, because it, you know, it can be. He tries to make it comfortable

Unknown: 36:40

for everybody. Yeah, exactly.

Natalie: 36:42

And so he's like, he just, he uses humor to get through that anything that feels like might be discomfort, like I just rolled me out of the way, and people laugh, and they're like, oh, okay, he's, he's fine. You know what I mean? Like, oh, he's, he's got a sense of humor. You know? I think I love that. You guys have found and established what looks like, it seems like your new normal. And so my question to you, and this one's a this one's a bit tougher, um, is that, I don't know if you know this, but you're not a spring chicken. I know what a puppy? No, he's not. He's not a puppy, although they do have a puppy. Do you worry about? And this is like parents who take care of children who have disabilities and things like that. Do you worry about dugan's future when you're not around? And how have you all thought about planning for if something happens that something not that you pass, but something happens where you couldn't be able to care for him? How do you all think about those conversations.

Unknown: 37:41

Well, I don't know if he thinks about it, because we're open with with most things, but there's some things we keep prod. I worry more about it than I'm sure he does. I mean, I still get around good. I'm okay, you know, get, you know, back pains from wearing a police belt for 34 years and stuff like that. But, um, I do work. I mean, who's because the things that you had, certain procedures have to be done. It's busy taking care of that one of them. But it's, I just don't, it's just so I just don't want anybody else take care, take care of my son. Yeah, I'm not. And someone's, someone's gonna have to one day if he, if he doesn't, if he does get to walking, you know, someone's gonna have to step in. So, and

Natalie: 38:29

would you say your plan for that now? Do you feel like you're like, Have you planned for that for now? Or you're still a little avoidant personality?

Unknown: 38:38

I'm avoiding it. I just that's one of those things I'm going to contact caregivers. Because, like I said, there's, there's all kinds of support programs they have. And it'd be as simple as somebody, because Dublin can do for himself, but I just look at if he were to fall out of his wheelchair and get wedged in somewhere. You know, it's stuff like that. But when that's the reason I don't just take off and go again on my days, you know, if I if he says, go somewhere, and I just don't go because I just What if something happens. But that's me,

Natalie: 39:10

yeah, so. But you also ridiculously love your son, and I think that, and I say, when I say ridiculously, I mean that in the kind of sense, like the level of unconditional love that you have for him is, and it's not obligation. I like how you say it's willing obligation. But the more we talk, the more I'm like, it's, it's like, second nature.

Unknown: 39:34

So well, he's my it's, well, you know, it's an old country song. You'll always be my baby. Yeah. So when I saw was out, he didn't like it when I was when I'd say it to his friends, but

Natalie: 39:47

he'll always be my baby. I'm sure that went over well. So what would you for other parents who find themselves in these places? Do you have words of advice, tips or tricks? Things that you would you would say to people, to other caregivers, these are things that you're going to feel and this is okay. What are things that you would tell other people insights that you've learned over the years?

Unknown: 40:13

Well, it's the like you brought up my age. Thanks for that. Um, yeah. Um, David, just be prepared. Because, yeah, I've got years in front of me, but what's going to happen, you know, just you have to have a support group. You have to have other family, if, you know, if you have other family, and, um, other than that, just coming out to get with the VA and okay, if something happens to me? Who can my son call to get assistance? Because he does. You know, my older my older sisters. I mean, she's older than I am, right? But, but she's healthy as she can be, but, uh, that's it. My little sisters. You know that she lives her life down South Carolina, but you know it's not their position to take care of Dugan. So I don't know something that you know he'll be, hopefully he'll find a, find a girl. So, oh, we didn't even, I don't know it's dating. It's something I need to think about, that we need to make arrangements for. But I don't know, just family, just hopefully, hopefully you got, you know, enough family and extended family that you know somebody can step in.

Natalie: 41:26

I think planning is one of the hardest things though. Tom I mean, our mom and dad did not plan for for them, and our mom has Parkinson's, and so when dad passed at 58 our mom was 57 they my dad had planned. They they had discussed, and God did not go with that plan, that they assumed she would pass first, and they did not plan that way. And so it was really hard. And I think what I hear you saying is, because it's hard. Our parents, nobody wants to talk about it with people, because it's, I mean, we're talking about death and dying, or we're talking about if I have a serious injury, and they didn't have the POA, they didn't have a lot of things that we needed to support our mom. And so I think I hear you saying, Hey guys, make sure that you plan, and not even I'm saying that to myself, like we we're gonna have to have, because it's a difficult, uncomfortable conversation

Unknown: 42:26

I have, and that's, and that's something that I've, you know, you bringing it up. I mean, it's something I've known that I have to do. But you know how to, you know, how do I pick somebody to take care of my son? Yeah,

Natalie: 42:40

well, and nobody. And for most caregivers and even the care recipient, if you think about it, I know how I'm gonna care for Jason. And you know, when Jason said to me, you know, hey, Natalie, it seems like this is getting hard for you, because it was hard for me. You know, may we need to call someone else. I was so unbelievably offended. I was so offended, like, What do you mean? Nobody can take care of you, like, I can. And then I'm thinking, well, probably better, but because I suck sometimes I don't know you that well, but that's what I was thinking, yeah. Well, thank you. I appreciate that Tom I'm glad that we're really like, that close. And so Jason would confirm, but it's but the inside of me might be like, Yeah, I do need some help. Yeah, I do need some help. And even though it, but it's hard, even on our own ego, yeah, to let go of some of these tasks. And I know, without you saying it, that it is hard for you to let go of some other tasks. And so I think that, I think, you know, we would encourage our listeners to even though, if you're the primary caregiver, you got to give yourself a break too. And how do you plan for that? Yeah,

Unknown: 43:51

and that's the truth. I mean, I love my son. You know, we'll have our little trying moments, and I'll be thinking, I mean, not just see a couple days ago, I looked at him and he did something that just ticked me off, and I just looked I said, Call your mother. Make make other arrangements, because I'm out. Yeah, bundles up, and then, you know, I have a drink and okay, I'm

JJ: 44:18

good. That's I've quit several times. It's hard, because, sure, you

Unknown: 44:25

miss out on you miss out on a lot of stuff, but when you have kids and then you have issues like this, it's but you're going to do what you got to do, exactly I wanted it. Yeah, exactly I'm where I'm, where I want to be. And

Natalie: 44:38

it is a choice, I hear you saying over and over, it is a choice, and these are the choices you make. And I don't hear anything about like, Oh, poor pitiful me. I've given up my life for this. It's like, Oh, I get to do this. And that's what I hear you saying, and then also saying, and some days it's just hard, and then we get over it, and we're back to whatever. You know. I can't believe our time is already up. I love Tom Well, and we're gonna see Tom in DC, yes, when we record our PBS special, and Jack's gonna be there. Dugan, I come now. It's just jack and Dugan. Yeah. Where does Dugan come from?

Unknown: 45:15

He was born in Wilmington. Okay,

JJ: 45:18

I still don't know what that means. I know.

Unknown: 45:21

So pretty. He he Jack was Beth's dad's name, and we loved him. I loved him, and so, and I wanted maybe, and Dugan is an Irish name for my mom's side of the family. Yeah, my little sister was Jenny Dugan dulu, and so Jack is Jack Dugan, Duluth. Oh,

Natalie: 45:44

so Dugan is his middle name. Dugans middle name. Okay, so I just thought

Unknown: 45:48

it just sounded like a tough little nut. I

Natalie: 45:50

mean, you know Jack Dugan, Jack Dugan. It

JJ: 45:52

does sound Jack, Jack Reacher, but then,

Unknown: 45:55

yeah, our family called him Dugan, and everybody called him Dugan, until his mother and I split up. Then her family started calling them Jack, but she'll still call him Dugan, and I like it. He's good. He's good with either he doesn't, he doesn't.

Natalie: 46:07

I know we it's the same way with us. We actually answer to the dog's name. So we were so used to it whatever our mom called us, yeah, just whatever. Don't we do? You tell we're good. So yes, you know it is time for Sister questions. I'm ready. JJ, all right, Jack, aren't Jack Tom, are you ready go?

JJ: 46:24

Okay, so I read an article about you guys, because you know you're practically famous, and says Jack remains adamant that events like participating in the Warrior Games wouldn't have happened without his father by his side. So my question is, what does Duncan make possible for you? What does he change? It makes

Unknown: 46:50

he makes me proud. I mean, he's, he's just the coolest little kid. And, you know, we always joke about if he's really mine, you know, this and that, this and that, and I wouldn't do that being 23 because I don't want to find out I got any more kids, but, but, um, he's just, he's, he's a little me, he's a mini me, which I'm sorry for him, but we, we people will ask a question, we'll, we'll say the same thing at the same Time, and he's just, he's just a great kid. Everybody loves him. He's just, he's just, he makes me proud.

Natalie: 47:28

I love that. I know I can't wait to meet you guys. Here's my question, and it won't make you cry, and it has to be a clean answer times. So you're going to really have to think before you speak. And our audience is like, we don't know, something of electricity

Unknown: 47:44

y'all get. Y'all are giving people a bad impression of me. Oh, great guy.

Natalie: 47:50

What is your favorite guilty pleasure? What is the thing that you do just for yourself and you have time for yourself? What is the thing that you prefer to date, just for yourself.

Unknown: 48:05

Well, you know, I don't, I don't really have anything since I don't ride my motorcycle anymore, I just, we make plans to go shoot. We, we love shooting. We have a incredible range down here to shoot at. And um, then nobody monitors over you. Don't they don't care. So we, we should go to different little but we look for old, old gi bars. We just, we just everything. I don't have it for myself playing anymore. And I don't mean sound pitiful or anything, but no, it's just, it's just hanging out and having fun with him

Natalie: 48:40

well, and I think it's the piece that your guilty pleasure is that how much you love your shared experience with him, yeah, like getting that with him. And I know that you talked to me about, you know, going and shooting together, or when you're at the Warrior Games, I know those are things that fulfill your bucket. Because when he's happy, I know you're happy, yeah,

Unknown: 49:01

but yeah. Then the word he loves, He loves the Valor Games. There some Valor Games up around Raleigh, Durham Chapel Hill, and it's a little bit smaller than the Warrior Games. The Warrior Games is so regimented, it's a great thing they do with great support that they give these soldiers an out and out. You something to look forward to. And he like, he just, he likes the competition, but he just likes cycling, seeing this. I just, he's just, he's just fun to be with. We have so much fun together. Oh, that's awesome. I love this, picking on it, picking ourselves and picking on everybody else, whether they whether they hear us or not. Do we have

Natalie: 49:34

fun? That's all that matters well. And you know, this is one. Thank you tone, for being with us, and thank you for sharing your story with us.

Unknown: 49:42

Thank you.

Natalie: 49:42

I can't wait to get to meet you guys in person, and I can't wait and definitely our listeners, you'll have to listen watch the PBS special, because we're interviewing all of our guests, but they're also bringing their loved ones with them, and there'll be special segments, so you'll get to see a. Dugan and Tom together, and I'm pretty sure that's going to be one good time. And so guys, thank you so much for being part of and listening to our heroes, caring for Heroes series, and sponsored by

JJ: 50:14

it is sponsored by CVS Health and Tena, the number one incontinence brain.

Natalie: 50:20

We also have our friends from care forward, care forward and summit behavioral health care and the Fisher House and the fishing house

JJ: 50:29

we love. We have lots of

Natalie: 50:30

people who are supporting the series. And you know what? It's growing year over year. And you know, there's a lot of other partners that we definitely want to make sure that you listen into the series, got educational episodes, but you will definitely, you'll definitely want to listen in Tom, thank you again. Thank

Unknown: 50:46

y'all. Thank y'all, very much. Appreciate you. I look forward to meeting y'all, Yep,

Natalie: 50:50

absolutely alright guys, until we confess again, we'll see you next time

JJ: 50:54

bye bye, bye bye. Thank you.

Natalie: 50:57

Well, friends, that's a wrap for today's educational episode. Thank you for listening to our special series, heroes, caring for heroes. And don't forget to visit our website to sign up for our monthly newsletter. Sign up for the free sisterhood advantage discount club, and, of course, connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Tiktok, Twitter and Pinterest. You'll also find the video recording of all our episodes on the confessions website and our YouTube Channel. We'll see you next time when we confess again. Till then, take care of you. Okay, let's talk disclaimers. We are not medical professionals and are not providing any medical advice. If you have medical questions, we recommend that you talk with a medical professional of your choice. As always, my sisters and I, at confessions of our reluctant caregiver, have taken care in selecting the speakers, but the opinions of our speakers are theirs alone. The views and opinions stated in this show are solely those of the contributors and not necessarily those of our distributors or hosting company. This podcast is copyrighted and no part can be reproduced without the express written consent of the sisterhood of care LLC, thank you for listening to The Confessions of a reluctant caregiver podcast. You.