Caregiving Reinvented: Paul's Innovative Approach to Supporting His Parents

Paul Ptashnick is back with us continuing his story of his caregiving journey. When his father was diagnosed with Parkinson's shortly after retirement, Paul stepped up to provide support, navigating the complexities of his father's declining health. His story takes an unexpected turn when Paul's mother is also diagnosed with Lewy body Parkinson's, requiring him to juggle the care of both parents simultaneously.

The challenges Paul faces are multifaceted, from his mother's phobia of nursing homes to the differing symptoms exhibited by his parents. Paul's proactive approach, including finding a family friend to provide overnight care for his wandering mother, showcases his resourcefulness and dedication. Additionally, Paul's insightful decision to involve his mother in daily tasks like laundry and cleaning demonstrates his understanding of the importance of maintaining a sense of purpose for those living with Parkinson's.

As Paul's caregiving journey evolves, he encounters the complexities of navigating the healthcare system, particularly when his mother transitions to hospice care. Paul's willingness to make tough decisions, such as opting out of hospice at times, highlights his ability to prioritize his mother's well-being and his own mental health. Throughout it all, Paul's commitment to self-care, including seeking therapy, exemplifies the importance of caregivers tending to their own needs to ensure they can continue providing the best possible support.

About Paul:

Paul Ptashnick is a freelance copywriter and fractional marketer focused on B2B startups in the InsurTech, FinTech, and AgeTech spaces. In addition, Paul’s wife Ana is also an entrepreneur, opening Red Apron Charcuterie in 2023.

When Paul and Ana aren’t working or playing with their fur baby Marty, they are usually traveling somewhere. Paul and Ana have visited Peru many times, and they have also spent time in England, Ireland, France, Colombia, and Mexico.

For Paul’s 50th birthday, they have another European vacation planned with stops in Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and Croatia.

Transcript

JJ: 0:00

Hey, everyone,

Natalie: 0:03

welcome to the confessions of our reluctant caregiver podcast. We're happy you're here on the podcast. We're certain that you'll relate to the caregiver stories and find comfort with your honorary sisters. Now before we start, I want to remind you to go to our website, Confessions of a reluctant caregiver.com. And sign up for our newsletter. It's full of useful information that you can immediately use. Now let's learn more about today's gift.

JJ: 0:36

Good morning, sister, you're like Robin Williams, good morning.

Natalie: 0:43

Oh, that's a good one. You know what? Maybe I can mix up my do like Sir, mix a lot with my song. Good morning. Good morning. It's great to see you. JD, good

JJ: 0:54

morning. Good morning to you. Wait, you get a set of symbols or something. That'd be great.

Natalie: 1:00

Oh, that'd be like The Gong Show. You know what? JJ, if I don't know if you all watched The Gong Show growing up, did you watch the

Paul: 1:10

I think I was too young for that.

JJ: 1:19

It's Spence burns.

Paul: 1:24

No mine was, I would say, Brady Bunch, and it is enough like those the first shows I remember,

Natalie: 1:29

I feel like you were sheltered as a child,

JJ: 1:32

and this podcast is over.

Natalie: 1:35

Thank you for listening. Paul is tired. Speaking of we never normally come in like this? Well, actually, on the first episode that we recorded with Paul yesterday, we were laughing when we came in, so it seems totally appropriate like we're just assuming everybody's like, Oh, that's Paul. Like, we're just picking right up on that conversation. So

JJ: 2:00

as we said yesterday, it's a boy. He's a real boy.

Unknown: 2:07

I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you about Paul again, in case you missed the first episode, but you need to go back and listen to the first episode, because Paul has quite a story. And it seems like it's the never ending story, which is most caregivers that's that's kind of their life, like it just transitions, just to different people. So And Paul's has transitioned and continues to transition. So today we have with us as part of our male caregiver series. Paul Potashnik rocked it's with us, and when we first talked with Paul before we did the podcast, his story resonated with ours a lot, but times two, his dad was diagnosed with Parkinson's in a few months of retiring, a retiring goodness, after years of working and learning how to handle caregiving, his father passed away, but another care need became more apparent. His mom was diagnosed with Louie body Parkinson's today, we're here to talk about Paul's mother. His time in caring. He used all the things that he learned from his dad, but he learned new things.

Natalie: 3:17

I think he said he'd say he got smarter, Jay, I was probably but he

Unknown: 3:22

he also had new lessons to learn. I guess caregiving never stops, like you never stop learning, because there's always new obstacles, new speed bumps. How's that totally Oh yeah. So Natalie, what is it you're gonna say? And then what happened?

Natalie: 3:38

Okay, so in the last episode of Paul told us about his crazy life, and it's really my crazy caregiving life, like, you know he you slow, you kind of slow, burned into it a little bit. You're supporting your parents and things like that. And your dad was diagnosed first with Parkinson's, and you supported them, and then you placed your dad in the skilled nursing, and your mom was in their home, right? So you're split. I can only imagine what trying to support two people in different locations that have been married for. How long have your parents been married? Oh,

Paul: 4:17

my, close to 50 years. I think Exactly, yeah. And they were like, Yeah, they were, they were split up. And yeah, it was kind of like, it was interesting too, just because my mom really kind of had a phobia of the nursing home. I'm not sure what it was, but like, she didn't feel comfortable like going to see my dad there. She wanted him home. And like, I kind of felt like, I think with her dimension stuff. Maybe she just kind of felt like, Oh, this is going to be me. Like, this is the next step for me, is, I'll have to be here. We still can't figure it out. Like, that's, this is the theory my sister and I kind of came up with was, that's probably what it was, is she kind of had, like, a she had a fear of going in there too and being like my dad, and she just wanted to stay home. So. Yeah,

Natalie: 5:00

yeah, that makes sense. How did your mom and dad? I mean, your mom and dad have been married forever, right? And how did they communicate respect, well, but I mean, then I think about it, I'm like, well, your mom's getting dementia. And did you all see that? Was that coming on at the same time? Yeah, so your dad was getting ill. Um,

Paul: 5:21

my mom was a couple years after, and was funny too. Like, I always remember the day, like she was diagnosed, like I left work early, so like, I found out, my dad's like, he called me up. He's like, God. He goes, You won't believe it. He goes, guess who is Parkinson's? And I'm like, Who? He's like, Mom. I'm like, what? And I'm like, how's she doing? How she handled it? He's like, Oh, it's not really taken well. And I remember, like, I left work early that day just to go home, and just like, you know, got to her a little bit and stuff. But, um, hers, you know, so my it's funny. So Parkinson's, it affects everyone differently. Some people, like, might get really, like, tremors. Other people might not. They might have more of a dementia aspect. So it affects everyone differently. So like, you know, with my dad, it was definitely, like the tremors and stuff, and with my mom, it was just more of, like her memory, and then like, sunsetting, which is, like, certain point of the day they get, like, very, very anxious and stuff and so completely different symptoms.

Natalie: 6:19

Wow, yeah, it's, I think what's so odd to me and unique about this is that your parents both had Parkinson's Right, right? And that's, that's interesting, and the why? Because, I know there's a lot of people think there's, you know, the reason for Parkinson's is varies, and is it chemical exposure? Our mom was exposed to some I mean, our mom worked at Oak Ridge National Laboratories, and the area of where they used to the trains would come through, where they would put the uranium on the trains to build the atom bomb came through and stopped where my mom's renovated office was later, Oh, wow. And there. It was very interesting how all the people in this suite of areas of offices all got very bizarre type of illnesses, cancer and Parkinson's Jay was.

Unknown: 7:16

What else was the total of Parkinson's in that building? We'll say that was has, is now over 20. So really interesting, yeah, but it's also interesting to note that Parkinson's is not genetic so for anyone that doesn't know that, it is not a genetic disease, so it's not something you pass down to your kids, which

Natalie: 7:33

is interesting because I think about your dad, Paul, I thought about this after our conversation yesterday, about you said your dad was in addicts, working on stuff.

Paul: 7:44

Oh, yeah. And the thing is, though, so my dad, I remember he was, he's positive. He goes, I got it from asbestos

Natalie: 7:52

exposure.

Paul: 7:54

He goes, I used to be covered in that stuff because he's an electrician. He was working commercial building and stuff like that. He's like, I'm positive. That's how I got it was, like, from all the exposure to asbestos, yeah, who's guaranteed now my mom, I don't know, but it's interesting. So I remember when they got diagnosed, they got like, a booklet, and I would say half the book revolved around the impact of stress in your life and neurological diseases and stuff. So that's like, yeah, something that was like, I was amazed at, like, how much of the book was dedicated just to stress and like, what that can do, what that can do to your brain,

Natalie: 8:30

absolutely. Well, I mean, it's a flooding of cortisol. I mean, if you think about it, I mean, your body's trying to make up stuff, and the flooding of cortisol definitely alters brain. And so I don't mean to joke at this, but I'm like, Man, Jay, I feel like I'm a little I'm in trouble, because I feel like I'm always stressed, right? Respectfully, not in a joking way. All of us

Unknown: 8:51

with Parkinson's, we're like, this could be a Parkinson's episode. We're like, you could, you know, nutrition, all these things can jump in. So we'll, we'll jump back. We're like, okay, we're not going to preach about Parkinson's today.

Paul: 9:00

Totally, no, but

Natalie: 9:02

it's good to know, but so good information about the impact that stress can have on your body regardless, because it can have a negative medical impact down the road with chronic stress, but we'll get past that right now. Paul's story, so your mom and dad are both alive at the time, your dad gets the first onset, and then your mom gets it. They're living separately, and they have not completely, but they have different symptoms,

Paul: 9:30

right? Illness, totally, totally. And

Natalie: 9:33

so you are, I can't even imagine this. You're going to places. You Are you married at this point

Paul: 9:43

still, we're still fiance. Yeah, okay, that's okay.

Unknown: 9:46

I'm sorry. No, we

Paul: 9:47

were, actually, I'm thinking about it now. We were, we were married because, um, yeah, we were married. You know, she's

Natalie: 9:52

gonna listen and be like, uh, Paul

Paul: 9:56

Beyonce, it's like, so much stuff happened during that time, like, I need to. Like, seriously, sit down. Like, think about it. Because, like, it's like, a blur, like I mentioned the previous episode. My life was on autopilot. And then, like, after I turned 37 it was just, like, it was just a constant state of change, yeah, just dealing with new things. Yep, totally, Oh, yeah.

Natalie: 10:17

So let's start, let's start talking about your mom, because are you? Let's, let's talk about the basic stuff, caregiver, because we didn't get as deep into this stuff, yeah, the day to day responsibilities that are added into your day. And, you know, in addition to you working full time, and you're your own boss, right? Right? Yep. So you don't get FMLA, no, you don't get to give yourself. You're like, no. FMLA approved for you, and

Unknown: 10:45

you're getting up at 3am is your schedule still the same to try and work and make revenue for your right, right?

Paul: 10:51

And to be honest, I just kind of felt that time was so good too, because I wasn't getting phone calls, I wasn't getting emails, no emergencies to deal with, and I could just knock out work. I remember it'd be like, nine o'clock in the morning, like, Oh my God, I've gotten like, so much done, you know, and I'm like, so that schedule really helped. So, but yeah, I mean, it was just constantly, like, I had to prioritize. So I mean, even, like, when someone goes into a nursing home, you're still dealing with issues, you're still getting phone calls, you still have to go and sign paperwork or resolve an issue and stuff. So, you know, usually what I would do is, like, my dad was, like, when I go to see my mom, I'd stop off see my dad first, and then, like, she was a little bit further down. It's like, you know, I'd make sure to see both of them and stuff. But, I mean, it was a lot. So, I mean, you know, with my mom, she was very mobile, which is great, but she was prone to wandering. So the real first issue had to deal with my mom was, when she was alone, she would wander. So I gotta get phone calls, like, from the neighbor, like, oh, well, your mom's here, and not sure why. So it was dealing with that. And, you know, we got to a point where, like, well, you know, what can we do with this? And, you know, like, it was me, my wife, my sister, were all kind of talking like, Well, okay, mom can move in with us. Or, like, my sister's house. That wasn't possible. Our house, not really, like my wife saying, Well, you could, you know, move down there if you want, but you know, and I'm like, no, like, that's not gonna work. We just got engaged and, you know, so let's just think out loud. And then we actually lucked out. So a friend of the family, he was looking to save some money, and my mom was like, friends with him, and he and we're good friends with us. And he was like, he's like, I know your mom's like, got issues. He goes, Listen. He goes, if you want, he goes, I could live in your place. You have coverage at night. So he's like, you know, I'll come home from work and I can make a dinner, we can talk. And he's like, least, like, she won't be wandering. And I'm like, Oh, that's perfect. So then we kind of, so then we and he was, he left for work, like, around nine o'clock in the morning. So I'm like, Alright, perfect. So we kind of switched our home care needs and stuff, and we got some, you know, change the coverage a little bit, so someone was always around. And that kind of resolved, because it had to be like, I think I got like, four or five phone calls with my mom wandering, and we tried everything too. So, like, I installed some alarms in the door. So, like, when she opened up the door, like an alarm would go off and that, you know, that, uh, towards the end, it was working. But we also put the, you don't like the child, you put them on the doorknobs, oh yeah,

Unknown: 13:29

where you can turn, but you can turn. Honestly,

Natalie: 13:32

I think they are. They're clearly adult proof, because I can't hardly open them.

Paul: 13:38

Oh yeah, seriously, yeah, it's, it's tough. So, like, so we did that too, we put those on, and that worked. But we're also kind of worried too, like, well, we can't put the stuff, all the stuff on and then say, God forbid something happens and there's no one around. My mom's trapped in the house then. So like, you know, we had to be like, you know, there's nothing cut and dry, I guess. So, you know, that was the big thing, though, is so, you know, once we got the cover. Our friends started staying over, like that helped out a lot. And then, like, if he went away on vacation, or like he was working late, like, I would stop in fill the gaps, but that made life a lot easier. And at the end of the day, like my mom told me she wanted to stay at home, and I just kind of felt like for everything my parents did for me, like I should just try to make it happen if I can. So yeah, so that's just kind of like the first big thing was that.

Natalie: 14:24

Oh, okay, so wait before you go there, I want to stop and take the break now. Oh, sure, you like that. I want to stop to take the break now, because I know it's getting good. We'll be right back. I don't know about you, but my inbox is always cluttered with useless emails, but there's one I always open the Confessions of a reluctant caregiver newsletter. You may say, Natalie, what makes yours so special? Well, I'm biased, but don't just take my word for it. Here's what our subscribers say they love first. It comes once per month and you can read. It in under five minutes. Next, you'll find amazing tips and resources to use in your everyday life. And hook doesn't love a recommendation these sisters do, which is why we share sister approved products and discount links to save you time and money. And of course, your first to know about the upcoming months. Confessions, just like our show, you're guaranteed to relate, be inspired, leave with helpful tips and resources and, of course, laugh. Go to our website, Confessions of a reluctant caregiver.com. To sign up for our newsletter today. Hey

Unknown: 15:40

everybody. We are back for round two with Paul. We're talking about now he's moved into caring for his mom. So I have a question. You just said that your mom told you, basically she wanted to stay at home. But I have a question. You said you felt like they had done everything for you, and you kind of owed that to them. How's everybody else feeling about that, that you are? Yeah, I'm gonna make this happen. What are opinions in the community in the world?

Paul: 16:10

It's funny, you mentioned that. So, like, my parents lived in a 55 and older community. I mean, everyone had an opinion on that, and the opinion was, Oh, your mom should be like, an assisted living or nursing home, or it's really dangerous, and I was just kind of like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you know, I would acknowledge them, but that was it. And, I mean, that was constant. So like, the whole time my mom was was home, like I heard it from someone, and to be honest, it wasn't until, like, the end where those same people, like my mom passed away, they came up to me, and they go, listen like we're sorry for giving you a hard time. They go, then the day you did the right thing, and you should be proud of yourself, and you know, so that was like a little validation, but it was nice to hear that, at least that, you know, that they said that so, but no, it was, it was tough. I felt it's a lonely journey. Sometimes, yeah,

JJ: 16:58

everybody's got an opinion.

Paul: 17:01

Oh, yeah, yeah. And, you know, I think what it is too, so, like, you know, like, all the stuff is, you know, they're in the 55 and older community, and it's just funny. So my parents were always like, Oh, you could throw us in a nursing home. We'll be I don't know, my mom told me. She's like, Oh, you could throw us in the nursing home. We'll be fine. She's, well, maybe not so sure about your dad, but, you know, but we'll, you know, you can put us in there. We'll be fine.

Natalie: 17:25

He's resilient. He'll work through it, yeah, you know. And I think

Paul: 17:31

with the people in, like, the where my parents lived, I think, you know, during that process, they got older and they saw, like, Oh, yeah. Like, you know what? Like, I want to age in place. Like, I've seen some of my friends going to facilities and stuff like that, and, yeah, like, I want to age in place. So I think that's their perspective change over time too. Because as they got older, they could, they were getting to the point where it's like, you know, being have to go to assisted living or long term care. So,

JJ: 17:57

yeah, did

Natalie: 17:58

you all ever think about because I want to go back to having the person who moved in, because we had land talked about that and how they were fortunate to have somebody move in with her mom, if you remember Jay. But did you all ever talk about having your mom and your dad together? Because when we looked at a place here in Roanoke, when we were initially looking for our mom, there was an assisted living facility, and that transitioned up to skilled nursing, and they had shared rooms, and they had these suites, and they were super booged. I was already ready to move in. I was getting my things packed, and Jason was like, Where are we going? I'm like, don't worry about it. And because I was all down with it, and the food looked good, it all smelled good, everything's you know what I mean? Like, I do the sniff test. Yeah, if you don't do the sniff test when you walk into places, and yes, there's urine, but you know what, you can absolutely make places smell good, like, for me, cleanliness is a big deal because illness and so did they ever talk to you guys about like, Hey, you can have your mom could share a room with your dad? So it's like, almost like, for them to be able to be together, or was your mom like, No, I slept with him for about 40 years. I'm good, I,

Paul: 19:06

you know what? So I think someone did mention that. And yeah, my mom was just kind of like, no, like, she, you know, and I'm sure it was the dementia, but she just had a phobia with, yeah, the facility. And to be honest with you, too, just so this is where so with my dad, was very reactive. So with my mom, we're a little more proactive. So me and my wife and my sister too, we went around and we looked at like assisted living, because we're like, she's mobile, so we were thinking, maybe like assisted living with like memory care, something like that. But so we looked around and we were proactive about that. But the other day, I knew my arm like, she's not gonna be wherever we put her, like, you know, she's not gonna be happy. She wants to be at home. So and I respect that. Yeah,

Natalie: 19:52

I think the thing that gets me, and that's where I said, I want to go back to the other we searched. My mom wanted this. My mom said. But our mom wanted just kept saying, If I had someone who could just live with me, I'd be okay. Okay, yeah. And I think about this like, and I do think mom could have, would have been I want to say happier, because I think Mom was lonely, and I think there's something to be said for that, because we, both, all three of us lived out of the area. Emily was close by, but had three children, and they were in the middle throes of middle and high school. And woohoo, you know how that I mean, they're very busy, and the world revolves around teenagers, kind of idea, right? And I just think about like to be able, she just kept saying, and I remember Jay, if I could just find someone who would live with me, and I'm like, what a service like connecting people who are vetted to live with our aging population. And right I think about or even foster youth. I've thought a lot about foster youth who are exiting the system that could really support and it's mutually beneficial. But Paul, like you, all locked up and found someone who could live with your mom, had you not had that person? You think it had been you?

Paul: 21:11

I'm not sure that's a great question. Maybe I would say a flip of a coin. Really, it would be flip of a coin. Yeah, it was a tough I think probably the next step, what we would have done is, like, just kind of, like, think cast a wider net and like, think about my mom's friends, and like, maybe, like, one of them, like, who's by herself too, like, maybe one move in or something like that. Yeah, we were just like, we were stuck in. That just happened at once. It was pretty funny. So one of the aides told me, so, like, she was talking to my mom about like the friend, our friend of the family moving in. His name's Paul. We think about Paul moving in, my mom goes, Oh, he should be easy to take care of. I got a I got a good laugh out of that.

JJ: 22:00

That's pretty fantastic. That's awesome. She's like,

Paul: 22:05

my mom's always been the caregiver. She was a nurse, and that's her whole life. And that was a sense of purpose, and I would say too. So it's kind of fun to mention that, like sense of purpose, because I noticed that I would try to when I was doing stuff around the house. At first I'd be like, oh, I'll just do it myself. And like, you know, my wife pointed out to me, she goes, aren't you fall like, if all your mom, like, should I she'll feel better, like, doing the stuff with you and or just doing stuff in general. So then I was like, and that's what we do. Like, we do laundry together, we clean up together. And, like, I could see, like, my mom like, feeling better because, like, Oh, now she has, like, a sense of purpose. She's not just, you know, sitting around watching TV or, you know, doing this and that. So. And we also experimented too. So we got my mom cat. So growing up, we always had cats, so we got my mama cat. And, well, at first it was a little bit rocky. So like, I remember the first day we get the was that the

Natalie: 23:03

cat's name now was Rocky. Well, Rocky. It's gonna be rocky for you.

Paul: 23:07

So it was pretty funny. So the cat that we got, awesome cat. So he, he was given up for adoption like two or three times because his previous owners went into nursing homes. So he's, like, a super cool, chill cat. He's older, so he helped out a ton with my mom's sun setting. Because, like, 334 o'clock, that's when my mom, the time she wandered. That's when she wandered. So he knew the cat knew, and he would come out of wherever he was. He would jump up in her lap, so she couldn't go anywhere, and she would just pet him, and she was fine and that, you know, but now initially, so the first day, we get the cat, bring them out to the house and the vet, like they told us, like, don't just keep them in in the bedroom for now, because what happened is, if you open up the door, like, we'll hide. So me and my wife drop off the cat. My sister's coming over, and my wife and I are going out to dinner. Literally, we just get to the restaurant, my sister calls me, lost a cat. Like, like, it's been

JJ: 24:04

30 minutes,

Unknown: 24:06

man down. And

Paul: 24:08

I'm like, wait a minute. I'm like, how did this happen? And she goes, Well, Mom, open up the bedroom door, and then, like, we had to go outside and get some stuff. And I'm like, You gotta be kidding. My wife's like, what's going on? Like, they lost the cat. She's like, it's not 30 minutes. I'm like, I know. I'm like, Oh, my God. So anyways, about three hours later, my sister, my mom, is sitting down to eat, and out comes the cat from wherever he was. And he just, like, sits down, looking up at him, and he calls up, like, oh, actually, he's here. He was just hiding. So I was like, my god, is it anything easy

Unknown: 24:44

that is the life of a caregiver though, Paul, like, those are the things that happened, like they lost the cat. Are you serious? Like, I think you guys call when you break a hip, and now we have, like, a major drama, you lost the cat, things that you just have to be prepared for. Totally,

Paul: 25:01

totally, totally,

Natalie: 25:02

I actually love that. Do you know it's so interesting that you guys got a cat because our mom had a little dog, and his name was Harley, because he was hardly a dog and he was so little. What was he? J Ollie.

JJ: 25:18

He was a Yorkshire Terrier.

Natalie: 25:20

You hated me, Paul. Every time I'd get near our mom, he would try to bite me. And I'm

JJ: 25:26

totally true, Paul,

Natalie: 25:28

he hated me. And I'm like, and I would tell my mom, I'm like, That dog is awful. And she was like, I can't heal, but he doesn't like you. And I'm like, it's because you don't like me. It feels that you don't like me.

JJ: 25:42

But animals are,

Natalie: 25:43

they're animals are great because, oh yeah, there's actually group out, and I'm gonna put it in the show notes. I need to look it up. I met this guy last year at a conference, and they have these anime or these animals, these fake fur, fur babies or animals, and they've got heartbeats in them, and you can feel them, and they purr. And absolutely, for individuals with dementia, and for Parkinson's, it's very soothing. So for individuals, and they use them a lot in nursing homes, if you remember Jay doreens Mom, Parkinson's always had something like that, because it was very regulating for them because of they could pet it, and the motion, and that constant motion, the purring and the noise. For those of you who don't know that, if you can't have a live cat, that you can lose Rocky, we're naming him Rocky. That's another alternative that really helped. Awesome. Yeah, so you all found the cat. Yeah, yay. So as you're kind of moving along, and so you're, oh, we lost Jay for a sec. Hmm, that's interesting. Let's keep recording the Paul. Let's talk about Jay for a while now. So she'll be back on in a second. Guys, don't worry about it. You just for those listening to the audio, you're like, oh, did JJ leave? And the people on the video will be like, wonder where Jay went. So let's talk about, like, as we're you're moving along. Okay, you've got your mom, you've got the cat, so the cat's helping. Then I love that the cat is helping. And that makes sense to me. And then there was something else that you wrote in here that kind of going back to you as a caregiver, things that you're because that's, I'm not gonna lie to you, that you know, that's another thing that you put in your life to take care of. Like, I feel like I hear this theme of, I take care of things. I add my mom a cat. So you know, you did that, but you also said that your mom was prone to UTIs,

Paul: 27:41

yes, yes. And so that was interesting. So I wasn't, I remember, like, she was like, they act so different. So for people who aren't familiar, like the urinary tract infection, like your loved one were just like, act different. You're like, Oh my God. Like, completely. And a friend of my wife told her, because we were like, kind of picking her brain. So she her mom passed away, but she took care of her mom for a long time, and she she told us she's like, Oh, my mom used to be local, and when she was loco, I knew she had the UTI, and, yeah, the personality just changes. So that was something that we really needed to stay on top. My mom was making sure she was, like, drinking her fluids and stuff like that. So one of the home care agencies we use, they use, like, a digital system. So like, when the aides came in and stuff, like, they would just do it from their phone, they would say, okay, like, you know, what's mom drank, what she ate, this and that. So that really helped us kind of keep an eye on if she's drinking enough fluids and stuff, and if we noticed that she wasn't, then, you know, we'd tell them, like, oh, make sure, like, you know she's, um, she's drinking her fluids. Because one of our agencies, they use paper based notes. So now you have to go through and, kind of like, dig through and, you know, see what's going on. So it was just easy, because at least from home, I could see, you know what was going on. So, yeah, the UTIs are something that you have to be very careful about

Natalie: 29:05

well, and this is something really important that I think you brought up that we've we chatted about before even got on, was the transition from your dad and home agency to your mom, and, you know, having learned more from one to the next. So you just mentioned a home care agency that used electronic system versus paper, correct? And I'm thinking about like, if you're, I'm I'm assuming you're responsible for all the appointments, and that you're probably going whether you're on phone or you're taking them to appointments, and you've got all this information from people, right, your team, right? How are you getting your arms around that? And you know, is there lessons learned and recommendations even from that, and trying to, to try to get all the cats together, right?

Paul: 29:58

Right? Yeah, and it is a lot. And then, like, things actually got more complex, because then we got hospice for my mom, hospice care. So then that changes everything. So like, at least in state of Massachusetts, when you're at hospice, you have to use their primary care physician, so he's the lead physician. So now, like, I have to keep my mom's other physician in the loop and her neurologist because this guy, like, want to make all these changes and stuff, and we're like, whoa. Like, hold on, like, you know, like, we have to let our other doctors know too, because, you know, hospice ends after six months. So what happens if we make all these changes? My mom gets off hospice? Like, that's going to be, like, a huge issue, you know? Yeah, I mean, to be honest, it was just tough. Like, I mean, what I would do is, so, for the care agency that did the paper based notes, I would sit there and take pictures on my phone. And then what I would do is I would go in and then type it into, like, another app. So to have those notes electronically, you know, I would use the other system. It was clear care they were using. So I, you know, I would log into the clear care and, you know, so like, I would digest that information, and then, like, you know, I would talk to my either like her new primary care physician or the other doctors to give them the loop. Because the thing is, with hospice, they had no idea. Really, they weren't there day to day. They were there for about an hour, or something like that. That's the other thing too. Is like, at least with hospice, they're not there all day, you know, they're there for a few hours. And maybe what they'll do is they'll have people stop in. Like, I remember we had a priest stop in, and he would talk to my mom, so she loved that. So he would stop in, and they had some come over and do her nails, stuff like that. But I was under the assumption that, oh well, we'll have someone there for, like, a nurse or something like that, for a couple hours a day, not the case. So it's, yeah, it's just, unfortunately, it's just reactive in nature, though. So it's like, you know, you're having to chase down, you know, notes, and, you know, try to do your best to stay on top of things, but error is going to come along the way. Yeah,

Natalie: 31:57

I think that is, I think that's so important. And I think the thing that I the thing that I keep hearing and I know we've experienced, is from it's almost like care continues to evolve. Do you know what I mean? Yes, like your care responsibilities are evolving, and they and they don't stop when you place, when you when you're when your dad transitioned. I don't, I don't like to work. Use the word place, because i The problem is, is I work with children, and we make placements. But when your your dad transitions to a higher level and he needs more support, and he moves in there, it doesn't mean it stops and and so. And then when you've got, if you think about it, then you start bringing in other service providers. Because these are all people who really mean, well, we all mean, well, as a service provider, I'm one of them, and it's like, oh, well, give me this information, that sort of thing. And then, but you're doing all the work. And honestly, if you think about it, Paul, you're the keeper of the knowledge, right,

Paul: 33:05

right? Exactly, exactly. And sometimes too, I'm just, like, the emotional support. I mean, there are times too, when I would get a phone call, like she talked to your mom, like she just says she just wants to talk to you, you know, and like she might be, like, anxious, or something like that. So, like, all these things just kind of going on at once, but, um, it's just the complexity, because it's just like, you know, just when you think, like, Okay, well, we got someone else coming in to help out that'll make my life easier. And to be honest, it doesn't, if there's so much communication involved in this, it's, it's, you know, you don't know until you know

Natalie: 33:40

that, no, you're exactly right. Okay, I I've gone over my time a teeny bit. Okay, we're gonna take a break and we'll be right back, and maybe, maybe JJ will come back. I'm slightly concerned that guys, I mean, I know you don't hear JJ talking. You're like, I'm kind of tired of Natalie talking Paul, like it's because JJ internet went out. So we're just going to be authentic and keep on recording. So we're going to take a break. We'll be right back.

Unknown: 34:11

If you like confessions, we have another podcast we'd love to recommend the happy, healthy caregiver podcast with Elizabeth Miller as a fellow Whole Care Network podcaster we love how Elizabeth chats it up with family caregivers and dives into their caregiving and self care strategies, just like us. Elizabeth believes that family caregivers are the experts in caregiving. Beyond the informative conversations, Elizabeth reveals the tried and true resources and practical self care tips that empower caregivers to prioritize their health and happiness. You can find the happy healthy caregiver podcast wherever you download your favorite podcast, or go to the website at Happy Healthy caregiver.com

Natalie: 34:59

we're back. JJ is not. JJ will eventually come back, Paul, or may just be me and you the rest of the time. What happens? So you've been talking about, like, as we were just talking about, kind of transitioning, and what does that look like? And you're bringing in new service providers and and updates, and you being the keeper of all the information, and so your mom's on hospice. You're running circles. Your dad is your your mom's on hospice. Your dad isn't deceased. Correct is He's your dad is still so at that

Paul: 35:35

that time he my mom was on hospice, he was deceased, okay? And then that's when, really, like, my mom started going downhill, and my mom passed away a little over a year later. So things were progressing very fast with my mom, a lot faster than my dad said again, so she so, like, the Parkinson's, like, she decreased a lot faster than my father. My father, my dad, was thinking, like when he was thinking back in time, he goes, You know what? He goes, I think I really first I saw the first sentence of Parkinson's in my 50s. He goes, I remember one day I was leaving work, just like, I couldn't turn turn on my car, and he's like, I had to get, like, a wrench or something like that, to turn the key over, you know, to start the ignition. So he goes, that was like, the first time, like, he was like, oh, what's what's going on, you know? But with my mom, she got it later, but hers was like, I just felt like her, she just declined so much faster than my dad. My dad had it for a long period of time. My mom was like, very quick.

Natalie: 36:37

That's interesting, and it's interesting, and you're right about how an illness affects everyone differently,

Paul: 36:43

right, right?

Natalie: 36:44

I totally, I totally hear that. So in that last year, where are you like? Does your kid? Does your care shift up? Because at this point you're I hear you telling me your mom is declining. She's declining faster, right? And you have people are like, Well, maybe you should put your mom in, you know, assisted living or nursing. And you're like, Thank you. I'll take that under advisement. Get on my face. But are you and I, and I know that you mentioned when your aides are the folks that are working with your mom, they are off. You're coming in. So are you spending the nine at times like that, your other, your, your, your other brother, yeah, Paul, other Paul, Paul the second. So he goes on vacation because, I mean, he's allowed to take vacation from his home, right, right? So, so do you just move in?

Paul: 37:39

Yeah, that's just, like, wherever the gaps were. Like, that's where, you know, I would jump in. So if he was, like, gone for a couple days, whatever, you know, like, yeah, I would jump in and do that because she couldn't be left home at night. So it was just kind of something we had to deal with. But fortunately, he'd never, like, really went way, a whole lot, like, he was just kind of focused on, just, like, working, making money, saving up money, buy up to, you know, get, get a place. So, yeah, yeah. So it was that was a lot. So

Natalie: 38:07

beyond, like, cooking, did, did he actually help with, assisting with, like, getting her to the bathroom in the middle of the night, like our mom is, our mom was up during the mill the night, a lot she and so did. He was that part of the deal that he would help, like, with activities of daily living, beyond just kind of cleaning and cooking.

Paul: 38:25

Yeah. So he a little bit. So we were fortunate. He would just kind of like, hang out, like we would just like, hang outside the bathroom. Like my mom was mobile enough that she could actually, you know, take care of herself. And I think that's still where some like, the her nursing knowledge came in that she could, kind of, she had a maneuver around that. So we were lucky with that, that aspect every once in a while, like maybe, like, I might have to jump in, or he might have to jump in, or my wife, but it was, like, really rare,

Natalie: 38:55

interesting. And so your mom went off of hospice. It's interesting that she was on hospice, and then she didn't Yeah,

Paul: 39:05

and then yeah, and then they took her off. And I was surprised, but they felt like she wasn't her health hadn't decreased enough. So like they were saying, oh, like, you can apply again. And at that point, I was like, like, we'll cross that bridge. And I think it was like, eight months late or something like that. I remember people saying, oh, maybe we should get the hospice going again. And I'm like, I was sitting there, like, is it really worth the all the extra work? I'm like, it's not going to be, like, around a whole lot. They would have a nurse stop in, I think, every other week, or something like that for a little bit, and that was it. So it's just kind of like, you know what I'm gonna punt on this so, like, if we definitely need it, you know? So I just kind of went back to the original system, and, you know, that was working out okay. So it's definitely been my life easier well,

Natalie: 39:57

but isn't it interesting, though? Know that you had hospice, and I don't hear you saying, oh, hospice wasn't good. Yep, that it wasn't it. The hassle was more than it was worth, right? Right? That's the key thing for me, is that hassle, because it's meant to be something that supports the family, right? But I always worry. I'm like, gosh, the bureaucracy. There are certain things in the human service community, and especially around paper, because all we do is justify our lives. Is that you have to. It's almost like there's so much paper. It's like, it's just not worth it, just I'm too Do you think it was a was it an overwhelmed it was like, I don't have one, I don't have another second in the day to do it? Or was it just like, No, I don't think we need it. We're just gonna move on.

Paul: 40:42

I would be honest, I think it was just a little bit of both, like, I was tapped for time, but also, too, it was just one of the ones where it's like, with caregiving, you gotta make executive decisions on the fly, and it's just like, for me and like, I just didn't see it was more worth more effort than it was worth at the time. Maybe, like, you know, later on. It might have been better, but like to have to go through the whole real application process again, and then have to, like, go through updating. You know, for all I know they could have had a new primary care physician again, for my mom, some other guy. So I'm like, do I want to do that all? It's not, you know, that all over again. It's not really worth it. You know,

Natalie: 41:18

it is interesting that they were they they give you another physician. And I think about with ours, you're just kind of like, do I really need another physician? What exactly are they going to do that the PCP and my neurologist can't do? I mean, I do wonder about that. You know what? I mean,

Paul: 41:34

yeah, yeah,

Natalie: 41:36

yeah. I was in all of our helpfulness, right, as service provider, and all of our helpfulness, I'm like, do we really need another doctor? Because, you know, are you bringing all of these people together, Paul, did they all meet around one table to discuss your mom? Or is it hopscotch from appointment to appointment?

Paul: 41:54

Yeah. So it was like, hopscotch from appointment to appointment. But then, like, one day, though, I was just like, all right, you know what? Like, the three of us need to get on the same page here. Like, this is killing me, like, I can't be like, the go between, because then it's like, you tell someone something, and then they're like, Well, wait a minute. Well, what about this? I'm like, you know? So, so he did a conference call. I was like, we're doing a conference call, and that helped a ton. They talked for 30 minutes, but I felt like so much ground was covered that that alleviate a lot of the, like, a lot of the back and forth for me. So now I'm no longer the goal between they know each other now a little bit, and if they have any other questions, like, they were like, All right, hey, like, I'll reach out to you here. So that made things easier. That was something I wish I did earlier. I would say to just, I don't want to forget these two things. I would say, one is just for people so and at this point too, everything that we're doing at home is still cheaper than assisted living. And what some people might not realize too, is like with home care, you can write that off your taxes. I'm sorry, what in state of Massachusetts you can write off, I think it's up to like, $40,000 per individual for home care. So that's something that

Natalie: 43:03

you can write. I have that is the first time in over a year, Jay, I've ever heard of that, that you can write off home care you yourself can. Was

Unknown: 43:11

your mom still filing her own taxes? Is that or was she? Was she dependent of you?

Paul: 43:16

No. So we were having, like, we're having someone do her taxes for her,

Unknown: 43:20

yeah, but it was her personally, yeah, yeah. So, like,

Paul: 43:23

yeah. So all the home care that she had she could write off, I think was either 20 or 40,000 I forget, but wow, but

Natalie: 43:30

it's a huge number. Even if it's 20,000 that's a good number. That's the first time we've heard about people talking about that. That's a great tip to make sure, because Should I put in

Paul: 43:40

the especially tax advisor. I'm not a finance No, no. You need to say

Natalie: 43:46

the taxes or Paul is not a tax advisor, and we are not getting he's not licensed. He is not licensed in any state in the United States, but check with your tax advisor, because I think, I think it's so important, and if that ex that all that does is extend your dollar, it extends the resource. And that's what we want. Yay for you, Massachusetts, that you did that. If you do it in the other states, maybe you could market that. Tell us about it. Yeah,

Paul: 44:16

yeah, totally, I would say. But that's just something too like you kind of need to keep in mind is that, like, you write off a certain amount, which is good, and also too, I would say so, like, I use a service now called better help. And my therapist, she so, like, you know, you fill in the questionnaire, and I'm like, I wish I met her, like, in the beginning of this journey, because she would help me out so much because she had, like, the LTC background, she had the hospice background, she had the end of life background, everything. So, you know, something like that. Like, being able to tap into that knowledge helps out a lot too. So, like, I would just recommend that. So, like, if someone's starting off this journey, whatever, that's another um. Thing I just didn't want to forget about. So anyways, no,

Natalie: 45:02

that's so important. So that's that's really comes down back to self care, though. This is how you're managing your stress, right? Like, think about it, you're managing my life, and I need somebody independent. And it's not, you know, I look at it like, I'll tell Jason certain things, and I'm sure you told your wife certain things, but sometimes there's things that you just want to tell a total stranger that you don't really want to acknowledge, which is the reason for Confessions of a reluctant caregiver, because we don't really want to say sometimes, like, this is really hard, or it's a different angle to bounce off, or they may pull information from you that you're like, Huh? One thought about it

Paul: 45:41

that way, right, right, totally, totally.

Natalie: 45:45

That's a good tip. And, you know, I think I know, gosh, we're already at the end of our time. It's too bad. JJ, missed half of it, Paul,

JJ: 45:54

I know I still have 10 minutes.

Natalie: 45:58

We have no clue how this is going to turn out, but hope everybody likes it. So you mentioned, and I'm looking at my notes, the caregiving journey goes from being very active to quiet and back to active again.

Unknown: 46:15

Yeah, tell

Natalie: 46:15

me what you mean by that. Yes.

Paul: 46:17

So it's like, you know, you'll go through a period where it's like, a lot of things going on at once, and then things settle down. And, you know, the first two times that happened to me, I'm like, okay, things are settled down, things are good, but then things change, you know, and unfortunately, just when you're caregiving, a lot of times it's just declined down. So things will level off for a little bit, and then something will happen. And then it's like, you know, a lot of activity, and usually there's something health related and decline, and, yeah, so that's just um, and what I would say is, just based on my experiences during those periods where things are are quiet, it's just kind of like, all right, kind of just be proactive a little bit and just try to think about Some things maybe that you can take care of. So when something does happen, like, it's already set in a non reactive mode, you're not like, Oh my God. Like, I gotta do this and this and this. So that's something that that, uh, you know, that's very important, is that if I go back in time, like, that would be one thing I'd probably do a little bit differently, because I'm like, oh, like, everything's okay, you know, I think was after, like, the second or third time was like, All right, well, this is, you know, this is just the pattern, how it is, you know,

Natalie: 47:25

the ebbs and flow of caregiving.

Paul: 47:28

Exactly, ebbs and flows. Perfect way to, oh yeah, describe it that.

Natalie: 47:31

I definitely experienced that every now and then. You know, I feel that way with Jason, like I feel like I'm the after, and I'm like, okay, am I like, what am I doing? How am I supporting him? And I'm in my wife and I'm we're living, I'm living in my wife role. And then this morning, he comes and shows me something gross, and because it's gross, because he's coughed up something, but he's been telling me that his his neck has been bothering because Paul, he had head and neck cancer, and so he's very sensitive to any symptom, so he shows this to me, and this is why I wasn't a parent, but then I looked at it, and so that's the funny part of caregiving. Like, okay, well, and that's a funny part of think about with marriage, we look at a bunch of stuff that we never thought we would

Paul: 48:16

exactly

Natalie: 48:18

or, like, I didn't really sign up for that. But do I have to, every now and then he'll ask me to do something like, do I have to? They didn't have that into have and to hold, to look at the weird stuff, and so I look at it and it, but he's nervous, and in that moment, it's like, I go back into caregiver mode, and I'm like, do I need to call the doctor what feels but I try to let him make the decision, right? Jason, would you like to for me to talk to the ENT and have them go and we could go in today and get your next scope and just to make sure that it eases his anxiety, right? Because, right, we're coming up on our two year appointment, and so I think about, you know, I heard you talking earlier about, and I thought it's Anna, because I want to say Anna, but it's so I thought that was so insightful for her to say to you, don't just do it yourself, yeah, do it with your mom and allow your mom to have purpose, right? Right? That activities, even in the little things, like we do the laundry, but I think about, I'm sure you've had lots of interesting things happen when you were doing the laundry with your mom, or you were doing dishes or you were cleaning or, like, that's time spent together,

Paul: 49:27

right? Oh, yeah, totally, total quality time together. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Natalie: 49:32

Oh, I love that. Okay, so we are at the end of our time. JJ, I would like to allow you to ask a question. If you're like,

JJ: 49:43

I am connected again, so,

Natalie: 49:46

oh, you're something

Unknown: 49:47

to spray. So I do have a question, so I know that you are still you've jumped back into caregiving role with your aunt. Oh my gosh, that's why I would say aunt. Yeah, so you're still caregiving. But I. I'm going to skip over that, because I know you're still in it, but tell me you're in an after care with your parents. Tell me in that stage something that you do for yourself, Paul, like, what was kind of the first thing that you did that you said, Maybe I've got a little more time. I know you travel, but tell me something that you do for yourself. Yeah,

Paul: 50:23

probably the bet, the best thing I did was I ended up going to therapy because I had, you know, in the thing was so I was so busy, like, after they passed away, and I was just kind of thinking about it. One day, I'm like, I'm like, I feel like I'm there's a lot inside me that I haven't, like, talked about, and I'm like, Yeah, I don't think that's gonna be healthy. I feel like, you know that can, you know that's not doing any benefit. So, you know, I was like, like, let me give it a shot. And I lucked out. Like, the one that I have is she specialized, like, in the grieving process, and, you know, as the background that I mentioned. So, yeah, doing that was like, probably, like, the best thing, because it's just like, it's always different to just having someone that you don't know, like, just you talking, to getting different perspective on things. So I would say that the therapy definitely,

JJ: 51:16

I love that just for you, just Yep, just for me, just for you well,

Natalie: 51:21

and I know JJ kind of referenced it. You're in the process of caring with your sister, of course, yep, for your aunt, yeah. And so you're in this next phase, which I think at some point we're going to have you come back again and say, okay, you've gone from mom to dad, and now your aunt. You think you have a caregiving gene, you know, does it the way that you were raised? You think that your parents were just like that? What is it that you think that, because a lot of guys feel very insecure about it, a lot of guys kind of like, kind of closing out our our male caregiver series, a lot of guys will be like, Oh, that's a woman's job or that sort of thing. What do you think that it is, besides the fact that I think that you're really special,

Paul: 52:06

um, you know, I just kind of think about to just, like, put myself in their shoes. I'm like, oh, I want, like, a family member, like someone's like, to step up and, you know, do that. I mean, you know, with my parents, it was, like, easy, you know, I kind of mentioned, this was after the show yesterday, how, like, my dad hurt himself when I was in college. He hurt his back bad, and my mom didn't tell me and how bad things were, and always regretted that, you know, so when I got the chance to take care of them, like, I was like, Alright, this is my chance, like, to kind of make up for when I wasn't around. And I just kind of feel like, just stepping up for your family. I feel like it's the right thing to do, because, you know what? Unfortunately, at some point we're all going to be there, and I know, like I would want someone that you know, that looked out for my best interest. So, and this is actually where the therapy is also coming into because so with my aunt, we've, I've tried to talk to her multiple times, probably five or six times about next steps and stuff like that. Like, you know, getting ideas, like, if you had to go to nursing home, where you want to go or assist a living, it doesn't want to talk about it. So it's going to be all event driven with my aunt, you know. And this is where, just, like, talking my therapist. So she's kind of giving me some good ideas and stuff, just to stay, like, kind of proactive. And, I mean, just, you know, like, I've kind of, like, explored just some options, just for long term care and assisted living, so we're not scrambling around at the last minute, you know, doing that. And you know, she's, she's helped me out a lot, but she told me, she goes, Well, she goes, it's going to be event driven. So it's like, it's going to be reactive, it's going to be imperfect. So just, you know, but there's nothing you can do about that. So, yeah, so it's different scenario.

Natalie: 53:46

I like that. There's the comment of, there's really nothing you can do about it. And it's that doesn't mean that's a defeatist. It's like it goes with caregiving. You roll with the punches, right? It's going to be a little bit different. Let it be messy. It will be messy. And I'm a perfectionist. I'm a recovering perfectionist, and I'm doing a terrible job at it. It. I hate messy, right? I don't like things on the countertop either. I wonder why Jason doesn't notice the crumbs from the bread. Is that a shock, that you just made a sandwich and there's crumbs, but it's messy, and do the crumbs hurt anybody? Is it worth the arc? You know what I mean? So I think it's like, I'm going to tell you for me. And I think Jay would say the same, and I think you'd say the same to our listeners. It's okay if it's messy, right? It may be event driven, but I hear you saying, I'm still looking at some places. I've learned my lesson, right? I got a couple of this caregiving things under my belt here. Lady, totally. And it's not my first

Paul: 54:43

trip to the rodeo, that's right, yeah, exactly. And, you know, knock on wood. So, like, with my aunt, like she's, she lives by herself, so she's mobile, and she knows how to, like to shop online. So she does, you know, like, we'll, you know, she orders some stuff online, and then we also, my sister brings. It over to her, and we bring food over her as well. So like, you know, we're doing that, but eventually, at some point, something's gonna happen, you know, so, but there's nothing we can do.

Natalie: 55:10

You know, I haven't asked this question before. I just keep going, because I keep saying, Our time's up, our time's up. And I'm like, whatever. I don't care whatever. Now that you and your sister, we've never I've never asked this question for Jay. We've never talked about it. Now that you and your sister have gone through this with your mom and dad, how are you and your sister? Have you all had questions, comments, commentary, discussions around your aging yourself, because you don't have children, right? And I don't know if your sister children are reliable, because I always say that about our own. I don't know that our niece and nephews. I mean, we feel like we've told them we wrote them in the will, and we're hoping that's going to help us. Like, Hey, your aunts have no children. Nod and a wink. You want to help them. But how are you? Have you guys talked about what you all want, and have you thought, and you and Anna thought, this is how we're going to do it, and we've set ourselves up so that who will care for us, whether they're paid or unpaid, right, we'll be able to have an easier time from the lessons learned. Yeah,

Paul: 56:17

so we have talked me and my wife have talked about a little bit. We actually joke. Sometimes we're like, Oh, if we ever get to a certain point, just give me a pill and just, you know, wrong state, buddy. No, but, but, uh, all kidding aside. So, like, we did mention, like, um, so some of her family, they were talking about, like, like, uh, kind of like, making a villa in Spain or something like that, where all of our relatives and stuff live, and maybe doing something like that, or, I know, too, like, so, like, my wife's from Peru originally, so, like we also mentioned, like, oh, like, aging in place in Peru is definitely, like, doable compared to the US, you know, make you have a nurse come in there, and it's like, you know, every day, and, you know, it's a lot cheaper doing it there. So it wouldn't surprise me, maybe, if we do something like out of the country, you know, maybe that's, that's what we'll do. But um, you know, I think really right now is to like, we both like, try it very hard, to invest in ourselves, whether it's like therapy, going to the gym, we talked a little bit off the recording about the network chiropractor. Network, chiropractor, the holistic medicine and stuff like that, just doing things like that, I feel like, Does, does help seeing social as well, you know? So, like, now, like, we're definitely, like, more cognizant of just doing those things as we you know, we're in our late 40s and we enter our 50s. But, yeah, we have talked about a little bit and stuff, but I'm sure too, like, as time goes on, we'll have a better idea, like, nail things down more, but, you know, now it's kind of broad strokes.

JJ: 57:47

Yeah, you

Natalie: 57:48

know, I'll say this, even after everything Jason and I've gone through, we haven't talked about it. We're financially kind of planning, but nothing like that's really concrete. You know what I mean? Like, exactly what you're saying. And FYI, JJ and I are really good at caregiving. Some days I'm not, but Jay is, and so I include myself as a part of her. And so if you need some sisters, extra sisters in Peru from HR place, we're there. Go. We're there. Or your girls. So, I mean, we can be there and support you and be like, Hey, don't do that. Or forehead. Stop like, stop that. So that's how JJ has always parented me. Nope, stop that, Paul. Thank you so much for being with us. This has been so much fun,

Paul: 58:34

too. Thank you guys for having me on. I appreciate it.

JJ: 58:38

I love it.

Natalie: 58:38

Love it, guys, until we confess again. We'll see you next time. Thanks so much. Bye. Bye. Well, friends, that's a wrap on this week's confession again. Thank you so much for listening. But before you go, please take a moment to leave us a review and tell your friends about the confessions podcast. Don't forget to visit our website to sign up for our newsletter. You'll also find the video recording of all of our episodes on the confessions website and our YouTube channel. Don't worry, all the details are included in the show notes below. We'll see you next Tuesday when we come together to confess again. Till then, take care of you. Kristen daukas, let's talk disclaimers. You may be surprised to find out, but we are not medical professionals and are not providing any medical advice. If you have any medical questions, we recommend that you talk with a medical professional of your choice, as always, my sisters and I, at Confessions of a reluctant caregiver, have taken care in selecting speakers, but the opinions of our speakers are theirs alone. The views and opinions stated in this podcast are solely those of the contributors and not necessarily those of our distributors or hosting company. This podcast is called. Be writing, and no part can be reproduced without the expressed written consent of the sisterhood of care, LLC, thank you for listening to the confessions of our reluctant caregiver podcast. Applause.