The Method Behind the Caregiving Madness

In this episode, we talk with Helen, Elisabeth, and Jonathan Nash about the gradual progression of care needs that often arise with an aging parent. Imagine standing on the shore of a vast ocean, watching the tide slowly come in - that's how the Nash siblings experienced their mother's increasing health issues and mobility problems. Over time, these changes brought them to the crucial conversation about relocating her to a safer living environment. Their story illustrates how caregiving responsibilities can gently unfold rather than arrive all at once.

Have you ever wondered how siblings can share the load when it comes to caregiving? Each Nash sibling played to their strengths—one coordinated medical care, another provided health guidance and another focused on social needs. We show how dividing duties among family members based on their skills and availability can create an effective care team.

Communication and respect are the pillars of effective caregiving, wouldn't you agree? The Nash siblings  emphasize the importance of maintaining consistent messages with their mother and each other to minimize confusion. They also discuss the delicate balance of respecting their mother's autonomy while ensuring her safety. Their approach, rooted in compassion and clarity, offers practical guidance that underscores the value of these qualities in family caregiving situations. 

About the Nashes:

The Nashes are a trio of siblings who have embarked on an unexpected journey as family caregivers to their mother, now in her early 90s. With a blend of professional expertise, unwavering dedication, and a touch of humor, they bring their unique combination of strengths to the caregiving table, ensuring their mom’s needs are met while preserving her autonomy and quality of life.

Elisabeth, the oldest daughter, has a background in finance and human resources. She’s the group's master planner. Her analytical thinking helps the caregiving group make the best choices for their mom. She always involves their mom in decision-making and respects her preferences.

Jonathan, the middle child and only son, is retired from the computer software industry. He’s the tech-savvy one of the group, the one who coordinates with their mom’s healthcare providers and caregivers. From ordering groceries to providing transportation, he ensures their mom receives the best care. Jonathan’s the one who makes them laugh with corny puns and irreverent jokes, lightening the mood when things are challenging.

Helen is the baby of the sibling group. She brings her 30+ years of nursing experience to the group, using her expertise to assist with their mom’s medical needs.

Together, the three “kids” make a formidable caregiving team, each bringing unique strengths and skills to the table, whether they are providing hands-on care or offering support from a distance. United in their mission to provide everything their mom needs, they neve

Transcript

Natalie: 0:02

Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the Confessions of a reluctant caregiver podcast. On the show, you'll hear caregivers confessing the good, the bad, and the completely unexpected. You're guaranteed to relate the inspired lead with helpful tips and resources and of course, laugh. Now, let's get to today's confession. Yay. Hey,

JJ: 0:30

Natalie,

Natalie: 0:31

how's it going today? You know, I'm

JJ: 0:33

so excited to be here. Really? Yeah.

Natalie: 0:36

Like, is it just in general excited? Or? Or?

JJ: 0:39

I mean, I had to see you this morning. And so that you know, I mean, that's a 5050. But we have some great guests today.

Natalie: 0:45

Did you say? Guest as in plural, Laurent black with an S? Oh, my gosh, like, how many is it? Is it more than one?

JJ: 0:53

It's more than to? Oh,

Unknown: 0:55

it's great. Oh, my

Natalie: 0:57

gosh. All right. So let's quit playing around. Okay, sorry. And let's talk about our guests. Because I am so fake. I'm so excited about this. I said favorite because I just saw Jonathan's. You're giving it away. I've got to watch. If you don't watch this on YouTube, I guarantee you'll be disappointed a little bit. It's good on audio, but to get to see all of us. It's true. And the Nash siblings are like the Elliott siblings.

JJ: 1:21

That's true. That's true. So we have siblings today, which we love to have. We have the Nash siblings with us. So let me tell you about them. They are a trio we have Elizabeth Who's the oldest, she's my favorite. Jonathan, the middle child, he is the only son and then we have Helen, who we have to say is the baby of now these three kids have embarked on an unexpected journey as family caregivers to their mother who is now in her early 90s. Together, they make up the caregiving team which truly is a team, bringing each of their unique strengths and skills to the table. Whether they are providing hands on care or offering support from a distance. Today, they are going to share their journey of sibling caregiving offers some insight and wisdom and some anecdotes that will resonate with caregivers everywhere. Guys, we are so happy to have you with us today.

Unknown: 2:16

Thank you.

Natalie: 2:18

This is so much fun. When you have multiple people you have to take turns. Practicing so Okay,

JJ: 2:24

so here it is. We got important questions now. Like, let's do it. Okay, so who by far is the favorite? Oh, that's Jonathan.

Unknown: 2:33

Jonathan. Okay. All right. Okay.

Natalie: 2:35

Next question. And I'd like I would like to know who is in charge.

Unknown: 2:40

Elizabeth. Okay. Every day, I'm in charge. I don't know if that's actually true or not. She tells us she's in charge. That's right. Ah,

Natalie: 2:50

so they let her think

Unknown: 2:51

she's in charge. Okay. This,

JJ: 2:53

this is our favorite. Who does no wrong. And your mom says who doesn't know? Oh, that'd

Unknown: 3:00

be Jonathan.

JJ: 3:01

Jonathan. Jonathan. Oh. Oh, okay. Well, what is it was Helen. I mean, does she have like a characteristic? Yeah.

Unknown: 3:13

Now because right got rough really fast. No, I'm the baby. So I'm, I'm just charming.

Natalie: 3:20

Oh my gosh, if you guys could see Jonathan and Elizabeth space, they just were like, I just vomited in my mouth and just the little

Unknown: 3:29

goose bumps all over. Sweet.

JJ: 3:33

Okay. All right. So now we have family dynamics, which we always love. We're like, alright, this is how we laid it out. So we are very similar. I'm always in charge. That's right. Natalie is never stops talking. And Emily is the baby. So I've laid it out for us. So you guys have an idea. So, caregiving, you all three, make it work. We always say it's a hot mess. But your mom now she's in her 90s. Let's talk about when your caregiving really started, was it a crisis? Did you have a crisis? Or did you just slowly get into it? When did it start? Anybody can jump in?

Natalie: 4:07

I feel like Elizabeth is going to talk first to Elizabeth and Elizabeth.

Unknown: 4:11

No, Helen, you can leave that I would say it was not a crisis. I think this was something that we had started about, started talking about the three of us that began gradually over time when my mom had a fall. And afterwards after her surgery, she had some mobility issues, and lived in a two story condo where her bedroom and bathroom were upstairs. And of course, there was difficulty in getting her up and down the stairs. And of course, we were all scared about how that was going to work successfully. So we very intentionally very purposefully, but very slowly started talking to her about the future and what her living arrangements might look like. And then what maybe five years ago She moved into an independent living community.

Natalie: 5:04

Okay, so how old was she when this fall happened? Well,

Unknown: 5:10

two seconds of backstory. Yeah, my mom has had three knee replacements and two shoulder replacements along with some other health ailments, but she's she's one tough cookie, her pain tolerance is incredible. But it so you'd have to specify which file you're talking

Natalie: 5:30

to comment. Okay, but

Unknown: 5:33

since she's had that, that's over the past 15 to 20 years, those those incidents, and but I would agree with the lows, but I think what really precipitated it's been a gradual process. What really precipitated was our concern with the two story place, and her lack of ability to get up the down the stairs or the risk involved with that. And so in one point, she she was very reserved, she's generally resistant to change. And, like, we all are, in some ways, but so we started broaching the subject of looking around town for a one story place for her couldn't really find anything suitable. And she wasn't really ready mentally for for that change, I think. And I think, did we, I think we approached her from a little bit different standpoint, and started saying, okay, at some point, there's going to be a time when you need to make this change. And you may not consider it right now. But right now, it's under your control, right? You, you have you can make the decision on where you go, we can go around town, search for places, spend the time and find the right spot for you. If you wait, at some point, may not be under your control, we may have made like an emergency decision. And so it might behoove you to be involved in the process. And and and so there was there was an urging there. From our standpoint, hopefully we apply the right amount of urging pressure, whatever, you're alone, yeah, yeah, we tripled team per week. Let's be real, I would say it was it was three against one, it's still not fair. I prefer to use the words influence and persuasion because they have a more positive connotation. Yeah, there would have come a point, though. Yeah, there would have come a point where we said, this isn't your decision to make any longer just for safety reasons, right. But she was in her early 80s When those conversations started. And it took us a few years to influence and persuade her that it was time. And then I think that last fall, and her difficulty with getting up and down the stairs was kind of the final straw that convinced her yep, I see I need to do this. It was reluctant. But she knew this was the best choice for her. But

JJ: 8:09

she made that in her mind. It was like she finally said, Oh, it's that's the best choice for me. So she was part of that she kind of made that decision herself.

Unknown: 8:17

Although she'll tell you, she'll tell you that we made her do it. For sure. We made her do it. Right. And some of that is a little bit of she doesn't want to give up the the persona that she has, that she's independent, got it, that she's capable, that she can do all of these things, it's maybe a little bit of denial, you know, that I'm aging, and I am changing in addition to the accidents and the false that she's had. So for her to maintain a self a sense of self and some dignity, you know, they made me do this, I really didn't need to, we just have to be careful because, for instance, at the community where she lives, they have a social worker that near interviews, everybody that's coming in prospective residents, they want to make sure that this person is not being manipulated or exploited. You know, you know, your kids putting you in into a place and taking your money. And my mom has a tendency to make jokes, and be a little bit funny. And I told her, I said, Mom, when you talk to the social worker, you can't say stuff like that, because they're gonna call Adult Protective Services on us and find out what we are doing to you because we made you move and sold your house.

Natalie: 9:32

Yes. And suddenly we all went on a family vacation without you.

Unknown: 9:36

Yes, we all went to Aruba. Yeah, that is so true. That

Natalie: 9:41

is That is so true. In this sense. I liked that you guys had that conversation with her. I think that's really important because independence we all we all you know, if you think about growing up, our parents want us to be independent. They want us to be able to make decisions and so for many, many, many moons we may decisions and then all of a sudden, your children come back. And they're telling you what you need to do. Our mom struggled with that a lot when we would have conversations after our dad died. And she'd be like, I'm good girls, like, Get out of my face. Like, go on now. And that happened that lasted for about 12 years. And for us, it was in a crisis that we had to say, you know, well, you don't sort of have your car anymore. We sold it because you were FaceTiming as you drove, and probably shouldn't do that, mom. So that's a hard, did you Oh, let me ask you this, though. Because there is the power of theory. Like, I love that there's three of you, because the three of us, and there's always a tiebreaker. Honestly, there's a tiebreaker. But no one to ride rides with no one that has a problem. No one to ride rides with. So they really dispense. So did you guys, when did you all and this is important, because I want to know this for me. Well, I want to know this. When did you guys start having conversations about your mom offline separately from her to say, little concern that we might have to step in here guys concerned that mom's not really able to stay in her home by herself? That sort of Phil.

Unknown: 11:12

We've been doing that for years. And I will probably have to say that I was the instigator of that. Because with my background and community based health care, I could sort of see where those things were going. And as the accidents and injuries that Jonathan was describing, as those began to accumulate, I could see that we were headed down a path in that direction where her mobility was going to be the biggest issue. And so we would remind each other this is what I saw, this is what I see. And you know, we need to at some point, think about this, introducing the topics, but we were having offline conversations, the three of us for years, probably, I would say you know, 15 years.

JJ: 12:01

So you knew ultimately that you were gonna you know, some people like I'm not gonna care for my parents. I won't have to, but you ultimately knew that you were going to be caregivers for your mom. Yeah, it was kind of already the plan. So let me ask you a question. Where are you location lies? who's close to your mom who's long distance? Because I know somebody's far away. Or

Unknown: 12:20

that's me. I don't know. I'm super far away. I'm about an hour and a half away from your mom. And dad about 25 minutes away. Okay. I'm waiting to close. I'm about 15 minutes. Okay.

JJ: 12:34

All right. Proximity good edit. Okay.

Unknown: 12:38

Thank God our mother is not tech savvy. She will never hear this or see this video.

JJ: 12:44

Okay, we're gonna send her a VCR to

Natalie: 12:48

VCR

JJ: 12:51

require tech savvy. Helen, you talked about this is important because we divide up duties. And you talked about your background in healthcare. So do you feel like that's your specialty? So tell me about Super petty, your superpower. Get your cape out? So tell me how? Because I know you're all not hands. I don't feel like you're all for us. We don't all have to be hands on at the same time. Tell me about how you guys define your roles taking care of Mom, have you guys fallen into Okay, I'm gonna do this. And I'm gonna do this. How does that work?

Unknown: 13:26

Well, we sort of had, but it was it's been organic. Yeah. Which is, which is really weird because we've never had a family model like our, with our grandparents, where we watched our mom and her siblings become a caregiving group. We have just sort of organically figured this out on our own. And so I do a lot of the the health care stuff, but because I'm remote, it's all just sort of guidance and suggestions, you know. So Jonathan is the one who's responsible for taking mom back and forth. He's become the medical coordinator with appointments and transportation. And I'll say, you might want to think about having a printed med list or you might want to go ahead and get her health history for her vaccines. So we know when she had her last one, things like that. And, and I'll ask about medicines, you know, make sure you tell the doctor this when she goes in. So that's sort of been my, my role, but it all sort of happened organically. I think.

JJ: 14:32

Jonathan, what do you feel? What is your superpower other than show furnace? I

Unknown: 14:37

am, I am Uber Central. Yeah, I'm about 15 to 20 minutes away from my mom. Yeah. And so initially did driving back and forth as she became less able to drive. And then eventually, we we She sold her car and So because of that, then I started coordinating the doctor's appointments, things like that, because they need to fit in my schedule as well. It's actually, if she makes them and they conflict with my schedule, it doesn't work, we ended up having to go through the hassle of changing and that type of thing. So I just took on making the doctor's appointments and keep track of that keeping track of the calendar. And the key there is, through all of this has been communication with Elizabeth appellant. We after a doctor's appointment, I'll come back and I'll give them an email or phone call report of what was said, what's, you know, what medication what, how long should you have taken, diagnosis, prognosis, everything. And they'll ask questions, and we'll just kind of be the only communicate if we didn't communicate like that. Yeah, as I said, are three against one verb with my mom is the one is is about fair, we have to be a very cohesive three. Hmm, for

JJ: 16:02

sure. Elizabeth, what's your cape? What's your superpower?

Unknown: 16:06

Yeah, so I think my superpower comes from my background in change management, where I know how to bring people along to change and decisions and sort of meet them where they are. And I think sometimes with our mom, that can be a frustrating process, because she starts in a position of concrete. And from her perspective, and we all do this, it's very fluid. But I think one of the things I'm good at is moving her along in a, what she would consider to be a non threatening or, or soft way. Whereas Helen comes very much from a professional medical, she, she's the expert. And my mom trust Jonathan more than she trusts anybody else. But it's really the combination of the three of us that bring her along through discussions and decisions and in discernments. And then I think the other role that I play is, one of the things we worry about with our mom is she's very antisocial. So she is not a joiner, she's not interested in making new friends, she doesn't have a lot of friends, if any, at this place where she's lived. They have a tremendous amount of events and activities, and she won't go to any of them. Unless one of some one of us goes or one of our grandkids goes. So I'll go over there. On the weekends, we'll do a jigsaw puzzle. If she wants to go shopping, we'll, I'll take her shopping. So I'm trying to fill that gap of socialization piece, even if it's just with me, it's better than her sitting there watching TV for 10 hours a day. Well, we better. Go ahead. I was just gonna say I do think though, on any given day, we all play different roles. And it's become very much this may be sort of where we started and what we have a strength in from other aspects of our lives. But we all do all of these things, depending on what the set of circumstances are at the time. Yeah. Hey,

Natalie: 18:26

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Unknown: 19:17

JJ decided she was going

Natalie: 19:18

to take a 30 day cruise in December. And I thought she hates me. And I'm like who does that? But okay, whatever. I'm thinking it's great. You like your husband. And but and then Emily decided she was going to take a cruise. And then basically, they left me with mom over the holidays, which is fine. But again, I am JJ is the favorite in our house. Emily is second very close second favorite. And then if there were 100 people behind Emily. Mom would like them and then there's me. So I felt like 101 I'm feeling pretty good about that. And so I get The whole like, I had to take over the responsibilities I went in, I leaned in more to it, because I leaned into what John? Jonathan's your role of like there's an Helens role. I'm a combination of like, regulatory, what's going on? And is there any assistance that's needed to clarity around medications and things because of my background? JJ is in charge of all finances. So Elizabeth, I know your background is also in finance, who's in charge of the money set for making sure that that's coordinated? Because I know we have one person, Jonathan

Unknown: 20:31

does most the most of that. Oh, Jonathan, but you're so I don't, I don't handle anything. My mom handles her own finding. It's very, very simplistic model, right. But she handles her own finances. I do have access to actually we all have access to information, so we can make sure that, that she's keeping up with that company, but she handles her all. Unfortunately, a few years ago, she had she was scammed out a fair amount of money, which is, you know, a whole story worth sharing with your listeners when the time is right. Yeah. But after that, we decided that somebody needed to just periodically watch her withdrawals watch her bank accounts, just to make sure that she hadn't gotten caught in anything subsequent she she understands what happened. But we just felt like having another set of eyes on it was going to be good.

Natalie: 21:34

So we talked to someone else whose parent was scammed out of $18,000. And it was an honestly, I hate those people, like with a passion because I'm like, go get a job, like, go go do something productive. But then that's a whole nother podcast, and of why I hate people who are scammers. So when you do you all have like so here's a question for like, is this a tip thing? Do you all have like limits on how much your mom can take out? Is there? Are there safeguards that you put into place that I think should honestly, I have safeguards on our credit cards for myself and Jason, just to make sure like, it's like, Hey, are you sure you want to withdraw more than this amount of money kind of idea, or when you go out of the country, you can notify to say, Hey, this is not weird. Do y'all have any safeguards on your mom's accounts? Because I think she's in her 90s. And she's still, she's manages her money at some level. Correct.

Unknown: 22:28

And they, so I have access to her, her online, her online banking. And I've got it set up so that I receive notices for almost any activity, any account. And so if it's so strange dollar figure, or I don't know who the recipient is, I'll go and check on it or ask her about it, you know, and just verify that a particular dollar, I pretty much see all the act. Yeah, gotcha.

Natalie: 22:55

Well, if you're getting notifications, that's telling you kind of what's going on, do you limit how much money that is in that account, and keep some over an aside accountant and supplement it at all.

Unknown: 23:06

She's got her divided up. We haven't had to do anything from that stamp. Awesome. Keep an eye on it. But she, she keeps pretty tight book on it. I love that she's always been super independent, because she's lived on her own by herself, since I was like 20 years old. So you're looking at a really long time. She's been independent. So the only reason we even got involved in the finances was because of the scamming thing. Yeah. And she knew exactly she knows, she can tell you exactly what happened. She understands all of it now. But the The weird thing about the finances is there's such an emotional component to that, that we really can't overlook if we're going to talk about the scamming piece, because that was a horrifying experience for my mom. And I think for her afterwards. One of the things she said almost immediately afterwards is I'm not going to talk about this. We're never going to talk about this. And I said, Yes, we are. Because it's not anything to be ashamed of. What they did was manipulate her emotionally, and claimed to be one of her grandchildren in trouble. My brother son wanted Jonathan's kids. And it was emotional blackmail. Absolutely. My mom was just sick, she made herself sick over the whole thing. And it was, I think, for her a realization that made her feel very vulnerable and fragile and old and incapable. And we wanted her to know that this happens to people all the time, all over the country. It's nothing to be ashamed of. You should talk about it. We're not upset about it. We don't think that you're feeble minded because this happened to you. But I think it had a big impact. But we really try to promote her autonomy, but that's her money. That's her money. Jonathan keeps an eye on it helps her because the tech piece, right? She doesn't do that very well. She has no concept of online banking. She can't do that she doesn't own a computer or smartphone. She still wants a paper statement. And she wants to reconcile her checkbook, you know, and nobody does that anymore. She just can't. She just can't function within the technology part of it. But I think that speaks a lot to her dignity and quality of life. And her mindset that Jonathan really tries to promote that, that independence in that piece. She just doesn't need us that way. Yeah, so we try not to interfere in that another piece of background on her life. She she's been a single mother of three. Since I, when I was six, we were what four, six and eight. I think when she moved back to our hometown, we moved in with my grandmother. And so my mom didn't have a place of her own. She moved back in with her mom with her kids, and for for all of our childhood. And so when we got out of this, she ended up getting a townhouse. And so that was her first independently owned, you know, purchased house. And so when we, when she moved out of her townhouse to go to the retirement community, that was huge, because she loved her townhouse. That was, that was her baby. And the first one that was really the first place she had ever had really purse. And so there was a large emotional component there that we had to work through.

JJ: 26:38

If you liked confessions, we have another podcast, we'd love to recommend the happy healthy caregiver podcast with Elizabeth Miller as a fellow Home Care Network podcaster. We love how Elizabeth chatted up with family caregivers and dives into their caregiving and self care strategies. Just like us, Elizabeth believes that family caregivers are the experts in caregiving. Beyond the informative conversations, Elizabeth reveals the tried and true resources and practical self care tips that empower caregivers to prioritize their health and happiness. You can find the happy, healthy caregiver podcast wherever you download your favorite podcast, or go to the website at happy, healthy caregiver.com. Tell me, we talked about communication between the three of you all. So you guys stay you communicate. But tell me about communication with your mom, because I know that you had said I know she's not tech savvy. Okay. But I know we've got some tools and some things like with COVID and some other ways that we communicate with her. But tell me about how you guys communicate. Because I know that Elizabeth said, you know, she's not super social, but tell me how you keep her why it's important to keep her engaged with the family and to make her part of events. So

Unknown: 27:57

I'll just speak from from my standpoint, I think we're super low tech, in that we are talking to her all the time. I know I talked to my mom every single day. I think Elon does, too. And Jonathan, probably probably you do too, or you know, at least several times a week. And because she doesn't use technology, and there's no way we're going to communicate any information to her. That's how we we stay in touch with her. And also we encourage her grandkids to stay in touch with her. We bought her. What's the name of that thing? A grandparent? Yeah, it's amazing, like an iPad for an old person. Yeah. And so she can do face, they're equivalent of FaceTime. So her grandkids can call and now she can see her great grandkids. So we try to go out of our way to find ways to keep her involved. If, for example, one of her granddaughters is playing soccer on a Sunday morning, I'll say hey, let's go watch Colleen play soccer. And we'll go do that. So I see one of our primary objectives is to try to maintain that social FIDE for her, and which of course involves the communication and time spent with us too. Yeah. I would say also that we have learned that communication has to be consistent with my mom with all three of us talking to her. So while we're talking to each other, we try to be really consistent about what we talk with her about and any guidance we offer. Because my mom has some mental degeneration. That's just natural aging. She doesn't have Alzheimer's or dementia, but it kind of presents that way. Especially in the last year. Her memory is has become a big issue. shoe. And so she's very inconsistent about what she tells each of us and we get different stories, right? She'll tell me that my brother has done this and this and this. And I'm like, Hmm, I think I need to fact check that, you know, so I'll check, I'll send my brother a quick text and say, Hey, did you do this? And this? And of course, no, he didn't, our Mother has given it a different spin. So really consistent communication messages coming from us to mom. And again, all this was organic, we just identified this. And we never allowed it to cause an issue in the caregiving village in our group. And that I think, that kind of consistency has become super important for my mom. And I don't think we would ever use the word strategy or that we strategize about communication. But the truth of the matter is, to Helen's point, we're trying to make sure we're consistent, that we're united, that we're not confusing her if she's confused about something. And so there is a strategy of making sure that we're all aligned. And this is what we're going to say this is the path forward. So that we we don't add any additional stress into conversations or decisions or things that have to happen any more than that's naturally there. And then there's a decent level of stress that is naturally there for her. Yeah, because she can't manage some of these. She like the healthcare stuff. She can't navigate those systems. She can't navigate automated systems, she has trouble maintaining a calendar and scheduling. So that consistency is super important from us. If I can, if I can piggyback on what? I'm sorry, if I can piggyback on what you were saying for a second. The is as far as the communication goes, while my mom is the memory issues have arisen over the past few years and that type of thing. Let's be real, my mom has always, when she's talking to the three of us, we each get a different story. Some of it true, some of it, figment of her imagination, and these are not these were not memory issues. These are just things that she'd make up on the fly. Purposely. Whatever she did her needs. And so we check with each other afterwards, we get three completely different stories. Yeah.

JJ: 32:31

We also get that Jonathan

Natalie: 32:34

said to us to like, have you talked to your sister? Oh, okay. Well, then I need to tell you something.

Unknown: 32:43

Interesting. Mom is a wildly old lady. She's this is this is not good. This is long, long term. She is very intelligible. Very independent, gifted, tall tale Taylor, there is no doubt about. And she's always been like that. always been like that. But we were on to her very early in the process. So we have to circle the wagons and make sure you know, that do the fact checking is she'll, as I said, she'll come up with stories, or she'll come up with, you know, boarding from conversations with someone else. And we have to check with each other. And then she'll come up with it out of the blue. There are only 3467 Bald Eagles left in the United States. And you go where in the world did you get that? Yeah. And and I think she has, she's just making something up. And then it goes back to that fact check that and she's exactly right. So you can't I don't know. It's she watches a lot of TV.

JJ: 33:46

Obviously. Game shows. Yeah,

Unknown: 33:48

trust but verify.

JJ: 33:49

I think that's how we would apply everything that she says but particularly amongst the three of us. Yeah. We would probably say I would probably say mom plays off of our weaknesses. And so my my weakness is guilt. Yeah. And so she will push that button all the time. Like, you know, my rope has holes and it is worn out. Everybody else has a new rope and Adly it's like I just bought her a new robe. And what we find out is like Miss Martha next door, got a new robe. And I'm like

Natalie: 34:20

yeah, I don't have any shoes. JJ is like I bought her two pair Skechers last week, saying you didn't buy the shoes you want a she wants three pair for the skilled nursing facility because everybody else is really going to fashion show. That's interesting. Oh, I really liked that.

Unknown: 34:38

I want to add one other thing to the communication because I think it's super important for people who are in these positions is one of the things that we try to do and we're not perfect at it but we try to do is leave her with as much semblance of control as we can because as these big decisions in her life have occurred, all of these significant changes and just the net small natural ones like Helen was describing where she's losing control over things she can do or decisions she can make. And she's so used to having been in total control for the last 70 some odd years, is to the extent we can find things in her life, that she can continue to control. We want to encourage that. And sometimes it's easy for us to dictate. And maybe I'll just say for me to dictate, here's mom, here are the things you need to do. There's no question, just do them. But she doesn't have any input in that. And she feels like she's lost control over yet something else. So in our communication we're looking for is that is that a battle a hill worth dying on? It's not let her she isn't going to change that it doesn't really matter in the overall scheme of things. Let her control that. And so there's this underlying theme of alignment around things she can control amongst the three of us. And you know, sometimes we have to pull each other back or push each other forward on those on those conversations. But the idea is not to completely remove all autonomy from her life, it is her life. And we want her to feel some semblance of control left, and we will want to augment her ability to do to do things so that even when she was in the townhouse, we found accommodations, you know, whether it was, you know, she shot off with a walker, we eventually installed a stair lift, because it was a two storey thing. And so in her mind with a stair lift, you know, she could have lived in the two storey townhouse forever. Yeah, there were still a lot of foul and risk concerns on our on our part, Can I switch gears for a second? I do. Okay, I'm really happy to be doing this. Because it, it makes me realize what a blessing some of the situation really is. And from a relationship standpoint, I'm closer to my mom than I've ever been gay, I've spent a bunch of time with the after the each doctor's appointment, we go to lunch, because part of it is a there's a little element of like Elizabeth was saying, we feel the responsibility of the socialization aspect for her, because she doesn't get it outside of us, right. And so I take the time to go to lunch. And even though there are times that I just want to drop her back off, you know, after a doctor's appointment, I'll go, I'll eat with her and give her a little, we have a little bit of a socialization, period. And it's helped our relationship. But my mom and I laugh a lot. I throw digs at her all the time and even on here, but we laugh a lot. And the second byproduct of this whole thing is that I've feel like I have a better relationship and a closer relationship with both of my sisters now than I ever did. And we as we went away from school. I'm also unemotional guys, I hang up. The as we went away from school, we went our separate ways, families, careers, etc. And this is kind of brought us back. We know that the need for this has brought us back. So I talked to Mike your sisters all the time. And yeah, I I appreciate it. It's a it's a blessing. Oh, I

JJ: 38:28

love that. And I'm glad you went there, Jonathan. That is where we want to go. Because we want to ask, we talked about your mom, we've talked about your skill set, but I want to talk about your all's lives. Yeah, we want to talk about you. And you've got kids, you've got grandkids that somebody does. There's like four of them and one on the way, you know, so but I want to talk about that. And I hear that so much, Jonathan, and I love that about going out with your mom afterwards. The last one took my mom to a doctor's appointment. She always gets to choose the restaurant. But she wanted like she wanted I asked her so okay, Mom, we're headed back. And usually it's Chick fil A, that's her weakness. But she said, I want a bagel with salmon. And I was looking. It's like one of the afternoon. I want salmon and cream cheese and those little things on top. I was like Game on. I'm in Knoxville. And I'm like, I'll find it. Yes. Also people pleaser. People play. Awesome. But tell me that tell me about that. Like, tell me about your life these years. Careers just kind of give me an overall what this has done in your lives, like how you think it's impacted your lives. Or there's days like, for me, there are days when I'm like, I'm going to drop mom off. I'm done. Today's the day I can't do it. So.

Unknown: 39:47

So I'll start this because I think it's the show's confessions. Right? Absolutely. So I have such a long background in community based care. I've counseled and coached and guided and And, and supported all these different caregiver groups. And I had this expectation in my head that of the three of us, I would be the one that handled it the best, you know that I would step forward and I would do everything that mom would need. And I would, you know, put my shoulder in and be great with it. And I, I have a tendency to feel like I'm the poorest functioning of the three of us, when it comes to caregiving. The distance reinforces that right, because I can't do the hands on this easily, I still work. And I feel guilty, that it's kind of morphed into this job that my brother's had to take the burden of, I don't like it that Jonathan's had to take all that. So we do try to divide things out. But I have always felt like, oh, I should handle it better. And then I get the guilty part of it. That's grieving as well, because my mom has had a major change in the last month or so she has a torn rotator cuff now, which is cannot be repaired because she's not a surgical candidate. And it's changed her sleep patterns. We think it's affecting her mentation song, she now has a full caregiver four days a week, which is a huge life change. And so as a person who works in end of life care, I see these changes moving towards a decline. And so I can back up and look at that a little bit. And then I'm like, What the hell, this my mom, and I don't have those days where I take her to an appointment and go to lunch. And then the three of us, I would say that I enjoy those times the least, I have more trouble connecting with my mom emotionally that way. And we that's just my mom. Our personalities are very different. We don't jive that way. And I struggle with it. But for me, I can see the anticipatory grief starting to show in myself. Mm hmm. Nolan, you're so you're so insightful about yourself. It's amazing. You've always been like that. But I respect the heck out of that so much from you. This has made me more grateful for the gifts that my siblings have that are different from mine. Because we could not do this. I have no idea how solo caregivers do this. God bless them. My mom would be living in a box somewhere. I don't know how we would do it if we didn't have the three of us. Yep. And I think for me, I'm at the more at the opposite end of that spectrum. Because I know that Helen knows the vision. She knows what happens from here. She knows the sequences and phases that occur. And I'm really, and maybe this is a protection for me. I'm really interested is my mom. Okay, today, is she happy today? Is she laughing today? Is she happy tomorrow? Is she safe tomorrow. And of course, intellectually, I understand where this is going. But emotionally, and mentally, I'm not going to cross that bridge in my mind until I have to. It's just the way that I'm that I'm managing through it. I would say one other impact in my life that is worth mentioning is I just have become so much more empathetic for caregivers of all kinds. And I think if you'd asked me 10 or 15 years ago, I would have said, Of course I understand that's a hard job, I had no idea what I was talking about. And so for other people in my life, I'm still working. So for example, my co workers or my friends who are going through this, now I can sit in that space with them in a way of understanding that I never had before. And it has dramatically changed my my perspective and my empathy for caregivers. Unbelievable.

Natalie: 44:01

I really appreciate what all three of you just shared. It's so personal. And I think that's the thing about caregiving. And it's one thing that you know, for me, I've cared for other people for professionally and Helen, you do the same. But when it's somebody that's close to you, regardless of the relationship, how you know who's the favorite, and who's this or who's that all the titles that we like to give ourselves and things like that. I think it's it's so different for each one of us. And it sounds like you very much respect and support one another. And I know that you all probably have a text message group on the side, where you all communicate with each other. I don't know about you guys, but we enjoy memes as well. We think ours will be a book sometime for it would be in the humor section because dumpster fire and all these memes come up. And so because I think you know, I know Jonathan, you said you'd like to laugh. I know that you guys probably you have to laugh a lot some days so that you don't cry. And because some days are harder than others and do it. You know, Elizabeth JJ now we're having this conversation about mom yesterday. And it was a it was a snot fest. Sometimes we cry on the phone. And it was, we're not prepared for what's happening for our mom. So and Helen, I can relate to you, in that my mom and I have all of us, we have the most tenuous relationship because we are so much alike. And so strong willed. It is very hard. And I want to use this like finger. You know, like, you need to do this, or I'm very direct. And JJ is very soft around the edges. And Emily soft, and I'm about as pointed as they come. And my mom is like Sukkot. Natalie, and I just want to be like, because it's faster. Yeah. Personally, I was like, Mom, just do this. Just do that. Yeah.

Unknown: 45:54

Yeah.

Natalie: 45:55

You all saying we have to let her come to it? It will, she'll get to the answer. We just have to get her help help her along. Right. In Florida helpful. Influence. So you look at you guys are influencers? Yeah,

Unknown: 46:10

I don't have the patience for that. Let's just write what you need to do wherever.

JJ: 46:16

That's wherever she is on your screen. That is her, she has no patience. But I'm Jonathan because I'm I'm the most emotional one yesterday was crying because they haven't fixed mom's tooth. And it's been like three months. I'm emotional about that. And then but I'm also the soft message delivered to try and coerce her because much like your mom, she is she will make those decisions herself. And if I can lead her to the well, it's a whole lot easier than dropping her in the well. So. So.

Unknown: 46:46

But it's, it's amazing to me, one of the things that just blows me away is how together, the three of us make a complete supportive scenario. And we all do it differently. And we all feel differently. And we bring different gifts and strengths and weaknesses to the table. But together, we do one hell of a job together, we're keeping my mom exactly where she needs to be safe and happy and healthy and protected. And I feel like if it were just two of us, we would struggle we would miss the components of that third, third person and that third piece of input, but together, I'm amazed by how great we are as a team. Yes. And God help if just one of us had to be the caregiver for my mother. She would eat us alive. He would eat us a lot. We Yeah, she's she's a force. Oh, yeah, she is. It's, it's the fair fight three to one. There is no doubt about that. And God, and God help us if you were to go interview my mother after this and tell you a completely different story.

Natalie: 48:00

I don't even know who those people are. And I'm watching TV, and they're like, come on,

Unknown: 48:09

but they sold my car. They sold my car. Did they tell you they do a good job? Yeah, let me tell you. Yeah, tell you different story. Yeah,

Natalie: 48:18

I love that. We always say God knew it took three daughters to take care of our mom. And and God knew it took three children, siblings to take care of your mother. And so So I mean, honestly, I feel like Jay, we could go on for another hour. Because this is so good. I think there's so many listeners who are going to be a little envious isn't the right word, but long for the relationship that you guys have. And I and I know, this is not about bringing up dirt, JJ and Emily and I get on each other's nerves at times. And there are things that will be like, I don't know that I really agree with that. But you are you didn't have to tell me that way. Because Helen, when you said I tell Jonathan you know do this and do this and do this. And I know that I've been to JJ and and I'm like now did you do this? Did you do this? And it'll be like, are you are I'm sorry. You're not micromanaging me ma'am. And I'm like, okay, it was faster to say it that way. But I'll reframe it for you to feel better. So I think you know, I think there's a lot of listeners who know that they have broken families in the sense of their siblings that don't help in the care that's hard shot is really hard so they're going to hear this and be like I feel jealous. I feel a little I feel a little envious that I wish that I had that so but I do want to say it's time J for Sister questions.

Unknown: 49:40

I know I this is like lightning round. It's scary. It's not bad. Easy for

Natalie: 49:52

man, we should have done a game show Chad anyway. Yeah, up and

JJ: 49:57

about the Eagles right

Natalie: 50:00

He goes, that's like a test. Okay, you go first. Okay,

JJ: 50:04

so we talked about communication Tell me one of the key things that get you through the day like, what's your key go to? You're like I'm having a stressful day I gotta run mom everywhere I've got there's a problem or I'm stressed out and I don't have time for this. What's like your go to calm down?

Unknown: 50:21

Those those two people that my sister's as they, as they were Helen, I think was saying a minute ago if it were so act as far as taking care of her go nuts. But because we have a singular focus, yeah, we were very different personalities in some ways. But we have a singular focus. And when we all three, have that focus and with the good intentions for my mom. It's it comes together. And it's, I see it as opportunity blessing. There's there's the responsibility and not burden, but the opportunity to work with my sisters in areas I've not gotten to all my life. And it's made me appreciate them more opportunity to spend time with my mom that I had not. My mom and I trade barbs all the time, we just kind of joke with each other all the time. And again, blessing from that soon. Yeah, I happen to be retired. So I have the time to spend with her. And I'm I live closer to her. So again, just opportunity and blessing to be able to do it.

Natalie: 51:27

I love that, Elizabeth. Yeah, for me,

Unknown: 51:29

mine's not so noble. When I need to get away from anything and everything. I will get online or get on the TV and watch some kind of cooking show. Something that and I don't cook. So just this mindless. I don't have to pay attention. I love the competitions. I love watching it. But it's just some kind of release for me 45 minutes, and then I can move on to what's really important in my life. So it's sort of a guilty, but not really guilty pleasure. Oh, Helen. So my go to is a call or a text with somebody who's also living the same experience. So I will reach out to Elizabeth or Jonathan. A lot of times, it's Jonathan, and I'll call him and I'm like, What the hell? You're not gonna believe what that lady just said to me. She's bat crap, crazy. You know, and so I take my turn on the ledge, and they hold on to me, you know, and we we commiserate. And then we all just kind of take a deep breath. And we remember it's worth it. And we laugh and how crazy and and understand that maybe we are going to be one of the crazy old people and our kids are going to do the same thing. For sure. Yeah, we we hope. We hope because our kids, our kids have it coming. But yeah. Just to be able to talk to somebody who not just doing the caregiving job, but doing this caregiving job. Yeah, that makes all the difference in the world. And I need to put a little shout out sorry, two seconds, little shout out to my wife, Betsy, who is supports me in this, I spent a lot of time doing logistics for my mom, that that type of talking to my sisters. And my wife is extremely supportive of what we're doing and the time that I spend doing it. And that's I just need to make sure that she hears that. I appreciate that. Yeah. And she's sitting in, she's sitting in the room with him with a cue card that totally said make sure you I read that right.

Natalie: 53:39

Okay, so this is going to be let's get tipsy. Okay? And everybody's like, why don't we drinking? No, let's get tipsy. And what is one tip that you would give another caregiver or give anyone give our listeners. So one tip you would give our listeners on that has really helped you. As a caregiver, though I

Unknown: 54:02

would say all emphasize what I said a few minutes ago is try to look for things that the person you're taking care of can continue to control and decide and be independent about, as opposed to feeling like you have to control and manage everything. It's a good one. It's hard to do sometimes. But it's it's vital, I think for them in their peace of mind. And, quite frankly, I think helps us as well, in understanding we don't have to control everything.

Natalie: 54:43

I like it. Jonathan,

Unknown: 54:44

I don't know if I have a particular piece of the whole process has been an organic learn as you go process. And they've made the I'll go back to what I think is the key for us. And it's the communication amongst them. robust and and I can't overstate how important that's been.

JJ: 55:05

He said it's organic and you learn as you grow. Have you screwed up Jonathan, but it's okay, you've you've ever messed up or ever or

Unknown: 55:12

I say things wrong or screw up, or forget things daily, and okay. But people are forgiving it and we work through it and move on

JJ: 55:21

caregivers, that is your message for the day that it is okay, if you mess up the best stuff. So we

Unknown: 55:27

screw up stuff all the time. Okay, it's, it's okay, we don't screw up the big stuff. It's this is life. We're not, we're not perfect. And we've learned from it. And it built it helps build the team and the relationships. Love it. So we're bound because of it. I would say my biggest tip to another caregiver would be don't worry about the second guessing and the shitter coulda woulda because I look back now on things we did. And I think Man, if we had done this differently, or we have done that differently, that's really not energy that's productive to manage what you're doing now. And, you know, caregiving is all about conserving energy for what you the moment you're in. So don't look back and second guess you're doing the best you can you're making the best decision right now with the information you have in the situation you're sitting in currently. And as long as you make those decisions with the best interest of your loved one at heart, you're not going to make a mistake. It may seem like a misstep later on when you look at it, but it's not a mistake.

Natalie: 56:38

I love that. Ben, I love you guys, you're definitely you have no choice but to be honorary siblings of ours. So you just keep growing our family, he'll be guys, we just can't thank you enough for coming on and sharing absolute words of wisdom. And how siblings can absolutely get along and being able to support their family and their loved one. And for you to be able to continue to live your life to and I think there's so much words of wisdom J any last thoughts? Any thoughts?

JJ: 57:08

You guys are fantastic. And you actually they've like given me insight now I'm like, All right, I'll be nicer to Natalie. Thanks. Oh,

Natalie: 57:16

that way she's not on here.

JJ: 57:21

I really didn't know I really do. And I think regardless of sibling relationship or not, that key about communication is so important. It regardless of relationship. It's for everyone. And it is the emails it is making sure Hey, Mom had this change in our medicine. That way no one is surprised by anything. It is that communication and that for every caregiver for every listener, I think that's that is vital.

Natalie: 57:44

All right. Well, guys, we're wrapping this up. And we thank you for listening until we confess again, see you next time.

JJ: 57:51

Bye. Thank you.

Natalie: 57:56

Well, friends, that's a wrap on this week's confession. Again, thank you so much for listening. But before you go, please take a moment to leave us a review and tell your friends about the confessions podcast. Don't forget to visit our website to sign up for our newsletter. You'll also find a video recording of all of our episodes on the confessions website and our YouTube channel. Don't worry, all the details are included in the show notes below.

Unknown: 58:23

We'll see you next Tuesday when we come together to confess again, till then take care of you.

Natalie: 58:32

Okay, let's talk disclaimers. You may be surprised to find out but we are not medical professionals and are not providing any medical advice. If you have any medical questions, we recommend that you talk with a medical professional of your choice. As always, my sister's night at Confessions of a reluctant caregiver have taken care in selecting the speakers, but the opinions of our speakers are theirs alone. The views and opinions stated in this podcast are solely those of the contributors and not necessarily those of our distributors, or hosting company. This podcast is copyrighted and no part can be reproduced without the express written consent of the sisterhood of care LLC. Thank you for listening to The Confessions of a reluctant caregiver podcast.