The Voluntold Caregiver: One Man’s Journey of Helping His Parents

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David O'Leary had never seen himself as a caregiver but found himself in that role when his aging parents nominated him to be in charge of their affairs. As the next to youngest of 5 children, David was surprised by his parents' decision but stepped up to take on the responsibility. He organized his parents' paperwork and finances and helped care for his mother in her final years at home.

After losing his wife, David's father, Joe struggled with loneliness. But on a cruise in his 80s, Joe met and fell in love with another widow, Ellis. David supported their marriage, which brought Joe ten more happy years. When Joe passed, David kept his memory alive with Joe the Monkey, a stuffed animal, accompanying him as he settled his father's estate.

Throughout it all, David found rewards in caring for his family that outweighed any frustrations. He encouraged open conversations about planning with his now-adult sons, hoping to ease their future as caregivers. With humor and dedication, David approached his unexpected caregiver role with the same love and commitment he has had for his wife of 41 years. His story shows how caregiving brings families together across generations through life's challenges.

About David:

David O'Leary is a retired insurance executive with a long career in the industry. He is the fourth child out of five, with one older sister and three younger brothers. David has been married for nearly 41 years and has two adult sons. One of his sons is married, although, much to David’s chagrin, he does not have any grandchildren yet.

Connect with David:

Linked In: linkedin.com/in/dwoleary

Transcript

Natalie: 0:02

Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the Confessions of a reluctant caregiver podcast. On the show, you'll hear caregivers confessing the good, the bad and the completely unexpected. You're guaranteed to relate the inspired lead with helpful tips and resources and of course, laughs Now, let's get to today's confession. Good morning, Natalie. How are you doing?

JJ: 0:31

I'm delightful.

Natalie: 0:32

You know what feels good on a Friday? Nap? No. Oh, no, we've got a guest the day guy.

JJ: 0:42

Oh, sorry.

Natalie: 0:44

That's embarrassing. They're literally right here. I mean,

JJ: 0:47

I thought it was a trick question.

Natalie: 0:49

Apparently, you're failing. So we have an amazing guest today. And I am super, super excited about it. You

JJ: 0:57

I got a little bit of insight prior. And so I am kind of excited to get to dig in because there's a lot to the story. So

Natalie: 1:03

there is a lot of the story. I'm going to tell you. We're going to we're going to know about lots of people today. But I need you to tell us more about our bestie. David,

JJ: 1:11

you got another best day. I'm sorry, David,

Natalie: 1:13

everybody's my best chance. So today, I

JJ: 1:16

want to introduce David O'Leary. And David has been married for 41 years, he has two grown sons. And I'm going to quote this because if his sons are listening, still no, no grandchildren. Yeah, I'll make that a note. If we were a marriage podcast, we'd get started. But we would go a different direction. I know. And there is a lot more to David's story. His mom was diagnosed with lung cancer at 75. And one day he asked his dad who was 78 If they had updated their wills and trust, since David and his siblings were children. And the answer was we have decided to put you in charge of our affairs. So today, we're going to talk about being nominated as one sibling

Natalie: 1:59

voluntold that felt like voluntold voluntold.

JJ: 2:03

We're going to talk about that little role reversal. And sibling dynamics because we know that's really interesting. David, we are so

Unknown: 2:12

good morning. Let me wake up from my nap.

JJ: 2:18

That's a trick question. Usually. Thanks, David.

Natalie: 2:20

So you're so blessed. You know, it's it's still not too late for me to sing at some point during this

JJ: 2:25

phenomenon moving on.

Unknown: 2:27

So good. You know,

JJ: 2:29

I mean, I'm ready to get started. We now you always wanted your comment always. Okay,

Natalie: 2:33

so this is my favorite question. So, David, let's start from the beginning. You were born and then like skip to the end. But before we skipped it, we skipped give us some background about your family, because some of them like when we talked earlier, like some of my favorite things. It was about like how you guys grew up and some of your background story. So tell us a little bit set the stage before we go into the caregiving and your dad saying hey, good news, your mom and I think you should be in charge.

Unknown: 3:01

It's not all that exciting. It's an Irish Catholic household. I am part of Irish triplets. So there are three of us in a row. My parents had six children in nine years. So it is an Irish house. Unfortunately, their first child passed, but there's the oldest sister right now followed by four boys. So I am next to the youngest in this. We grew up as you would expect in a I would call it a lovingly disciplined household where there were expectations on how you behaved and what you were to do and what you were not to do. And that was kind of our grounding. It was a it was a great existence. We we had a lot of fun growing up, my parents made sure that we enjoyed ourselves and enjoy life, but we had disciplines and rules that we had to follow. And that's kind of what we did. So

Natalie: 3:48

where were you out? Where did you live? Because like right now you live in not Alaska, South Carolina. So where are you? Where did you guys grow up?

Unknown: 3:59

Yeah, so we grew up in Connecticut. And so I was raised in Connecticut. I still have a sister and a brother in Connecticut, the other two brothers ones in Atlanta and ones in Florida. And so we've kind of spread around and moved around a little bit. It's it's an interesting upbringing. We raised our children in Connecticut and met my bride in Connecticut. We raised our kids in Connecticut and then work took us out of Connecticut and moved around and then we went up here for for Natalie sake. We went up in Alaska because that's where she wants to come visit me for JJ sake. We went up to South Carolina to visit a detour.

JJ: 4:38

So I love David in your bio, it says you married the love of your life. You have been married 41 years but there's a lot in that 41 years I think because you your caregiving story. I mean, you've got a lot of a caregiving story. You've had a really successful career. You are an insurance executive. So how did all this like that's you got care

Natalie: 4:58

come into life? Yeah, cuz I Think I've started carrying well before your mom and dad. Yeah,

Unknown: 5:04

actually, you know, it's fascinating. I've never really viewed myself as a caregiver. I know that's the word of today. We kind of viewed ourselves as sons and daughters, and you did what you had to do. But the fascinating thing is, we were married in 1983. So yes, I was married very young, she was older. So I'm married to her. And to say that she raised me the way she wanted. We were just a year apart. But the unfortunate thing is, in May of 84, my father in law passed. And so he was he was a, he lived in southern Connecticut as well. He did an awful lot of things in his life. Unfortunately, he passed and on his deathbed, when he and I were talking, I actually told him don't worry about murder. That was his wife. I said, we will look after Barbara now. I was eight, nine months married 23 years old, not really knowing what I was saying. But saying what needed to be said, because that's what you do for family. And so he shook my hand and thanked me and a couple days later passed. And so as as Lynn and I have often said, we were newlyweds with a 50 year old child. Because my mother in law is now is whether it's 50 at the time, and never worked out of the house and always been a homemaker and took care of her two daughters, and little Sicilian woman, all five foot eight of her that I mean, I'm sorry, not five foot eight, that would be a giant for her all four foot eight of her. I knew she was showing. Yeah, she's, uh, she was known as Little Graeme when we had children. And so we kind of took on Lynn's mom at an early age. And we kind of worked with her and took care of her and made sure that she was cared for and supported her throughout her life. And she passed when she was 89 years old. So we had almost 3839 years with her. And then, you know, that just sort of became the thing. And then as you said, In the beginning, my mom in, you know, had when she was 75, she was diagnosed with lung cancer. And so we happen to be over at my parents house one day, and our boys who were then 14 and 12, and we're sitting out on the porch, and mom was upstairs in her room. When I said to dad, just innocently, I said, you know, when we were little you guys had done all the wills and trusts and everything else. Had you ever updated anything since then. And you know, growing up in the Irish household that I grew up in, there were a lot of things you never really talked about. They were sort of off limit conversations regularly. And that kind of fell into the off limits category. And so my dad stood up and stood in the doorway of the porch and looked at me and said, wait here, and I just didn't know what I had done wrong. So he went upstairs and sat with my mom and came back downstairs to the porch door. And in his little Boston, Irish brogue looked at me and swung his finger at me and said, Come with me. And I sit down, I haven't done anything wrong. I'm a little old to go over the knee. I'm a little, which is in a whole different place right now. What's going on with this whole conversation? He said, Come with me and his deep, very deep, James Earl Jones voice very deep calm with me. And so you know, we're walking upstairs, and we sit in my parents bedroom with my mom in bed, and dad and I are in the chairs and dad looked at me. And, you know, he knew what was going on. He knew my mother in law and knew we were doing that. And he said to me, we've decided, I said, Okay, anything in particular, he said, we've decided you're in charge. You know, I'm next to the last in the line of this family in order. Not not even close to this isn't going to be happening. And as much as I appreciate what you're saying, not what I asked for. Yeah, not what I'm looking for. And at that point, my mom sat up in bed, looked at me and said, David, we have decided your it? Yes, ma'am. I'm all in whatever you say. Yes, ma'am. And so you know that and I embarked upon going to the safety deposit box, going to all the papers, and I'd get delivered this pile. And so now I have taken on my parents and trying to figure out what to do with them and manage their processes as we're managing my mother in law. And as I say, in today's world, you can call that being a caregiver. But back then, I It wasn't being a caregiver, it was just helping is part of family. It's what you do. You'll look after family. And so while I understand the moniker and I appreciate the moniker and I understand everybody's doing, it is it is a fascinating experience to go through. And that's, you know, that was the beginning of the journey.

Natalie: 9:20

So do you think that your parents observed how well you and your wife Lynn did? And they were like, well, they didn't, they didn't mess up, gave me up. And they were like, he looks like a good person. He's a good candidate. Like, how did you get to be the chosen one? Was it straws?

JJ: 9:41

I mean, that's my question. Yeah.

Natalie: 9:42

I mean, because honestly, it wasn't straws, not a finger to the nose like, you and your siblings. No, no. And

Unknown: 9:49

if if my siblings ever listen to this, I can't give you all the reasons why. But dad delineated every single child and gave every single child and said you're in Yeah. And so I just kind of that. Yes, sir. That's just kind of again, it was one of those things that it really wasn't optional. It was, as you said, it was voluntold. And so you know, and we start, and I will tell you, it was a journey, I will never look back on a regret. It was the most fascinating, fascinating relationship I had with my dad. beforehand. It got even better with my mother as well. And then after mom passed, Dad and I became exceptionally close, and my wife, you know, has always been close to my dad. And she they became closer and it just it it was really it was a it was a fabulous time of our lives. Wow,

Natalie: 10:36

where are you? How old are you? And your dad told you volunteered. You did this duty. I

Unknown: 10:42

only see mom would have been sick in 2001 I think. And so I would have been trying to do math real quick. In my head I would have been 41 So

Natalie: 10:55

you're like so many your sandwich generation you and Lennar sandwich generations. Although you were pre sandwich, you were before the mayonnaise. So you can think about getting the bread out? Because when you were with her, Did her mom live with you guys? Or did she know? So she you all she lived? Did she live close by and you guys just kind of supported her? Yeah,

Unknown: 11:16

she was about an hour away. Okay. And so she every holiday, it was a little Graeme holiday and she was up with us, you know. So you know. And we say this we had, she was with us every step along the way. My parents lived the next town over from us. So we're all kind of in like a triangle. So we hosted all the holidays, everybody could come over. Everybody wants to do that. And so we we kind of kept everything going on a regular basis.

Natalie: 11:40

So you're in charge of your parents and her mom, everybody's you really could have just bought some property and have like a commune, I'm not gonna lie to him, that would have been probably faster.

Unknown: 11:53

would have been a little awkward, right?

Natalie: 11:57

So what was the conversation like with your siblings? Because if you were, it's nice that you asked like, like, Hey, what's going on with this? Like, that's a nice thing to ask. Because I can tell you, David, I didn't ask my mom and dad about it. But I think it also could have been because my mom and dad were in their 50s When my dad passed, my dad was 58 when he passed. And so I don't know that I would have thought to ask my parents about that. Today. Did you ever ask mom and dad about that? I mean, you were in charge technically,

JJ: 12:22

much like David that topic financials, Future Planning wills estates, that was off limits, David, that would have just been they would have gotten up and kind of walked out of the room. It was kind of like, no, that's your your child? 40. We're not going to discuss that. That's none of your business. That's a very private topic for our family. So yeah, wouldn't talked about it.

Unknown: 12:43

It is and as far as my siblings, because you asked about that nap, it's I was not going to have the conversation with my siblings. Dad's gonna have a conversation with my siblings. I said, because you've decided this, you're going to have to let them know that this is a decision that you and mom made, that I didn't ask for this, because I'm not being put in the middle of this conversation. I mean, it's just, and you know, he did not to the extent I wanted it to, but he did. It was accepted it really it wasn't it wasn't like a big food fight in the family that says Why him and everything else. There was the moniker of he's the he's the chosen one. He's the special one for a while. But that's just siblings going after siblings on things. But you know, I think as it transpired more and took, and they saw really what was going on and the duration of things. I think they realized that the amount of work involved was something that if I if I never really asked them, but I think some of them might have been pleased they weren't asked, because of the work.

Natalie: 13:43

Yeah, I would totally agree with that. We're at this perfect spot, because we're going to transition here in just a second j. So let's take a break, and we'll be right back. All right. Hey, ladies, I need to interrupt for just a second to share about the sisterhood membership. It's basically a sale every day. And the best part, it's free. Here's the details. We're partnering with our friends at benefit hub and other care partners to save you money. With over 200,000 participating companies across the US and abroad. You'll find discounts at your favorite local stores, huge savings on vacations, amazing deals on home auto and supplemental insurances and everything in between. Go to Confessions of a reluctant caregiver.com to sign up. And then definitely tell your friends about it. They can join to trust me, there's a discount for everyone. And don't forget, it's free. Okay, back to confessing.

JJ: 14:43

Hey, everybody, we are back here with David O'Leary. And we're talking about being voluntold is his dad called him upstairs and his parents said, You are in charge. So I love that.

Natalie: 14:56

I think he I think he proved though that he was in charge Because of how well he did with little Graeme, who is lends mother, and who, when David in Lynn, who is David married to Cougar, she's just a year older than him. But I do appreciate that. I like that you refer to your wife as a cougar, you know, they Cougars are pretty as an animal, so and so I will say this. So and that was at 23. And early nine months after you were married. So it was kind of like y'all had a baby. But that's what I said. But it's fully grown I, honestly. So let's transition into the next space, because you talked about a little bit about your siblings, and that there might have been like a who, I'm going to tell you that as a middle child, JJ was always in charge, JJ was put in charge from the get go. And I was fine with that. Because I can't cook and JJ was in charge of cooking, but I can fold some socks really well. And so I can tell you that I am very happy to let JJ take the lead with our mom, I can tell you David Right now I'm very happy and and just just tell me what to do. That's typically what I'll say to her like, do you want to be the LSAT, buddy? Or do you need me to go do this or run and do that? There's a lot of responsibility that comes with being in charge of, you know, the other people? Did you all as a sibling group? Because there's five of you? Did you all periodically have parent meetings? Like almost like a parent teacher conference? Like? Did you parent meetings where y'all talked about what was going on? And you're keeping abreast? Are they given lots of opinions that you're like, Thank you, I'll take that under advisement.

Unknown: 16:35

I know, in my family, we love each other immensely as siblings, but we don't necessarily get together all the time. Two of the siblings were out of town. Two were local. So you know, the local ones would see, you know, we'll see that on a regular basis after mom passed and, you know, do things with him the two out of towns, you know, the phone calls, dad didn't really travel to them at that point in time. Not that he couldn't, he just didn't, not that there was a problem. But so it was they would come see him, you know, the one in Atlanta would come up and see him that one and the one in Florida was in Ohio with at the point and he didn't come up much. But they were talking on the phone and they would do those things. So nobody really questioned because we need to get my dad was very self sufficient at that point as well. That was you know, he was living in the house that we were all raised in. And he was he's very independent person that would just sort of do what he needed to do. And you know, we would have him over every Sunday for dinner, and the local siblings would come over with their families if they wanted to, if they didn't want to that was fine. And, you know, Linwood cook a week's worth of meals for Him that sent him home with a week's worth of meals, because, you know, his idea of cooking was anything on the stovetop, nothing would go in the oven because that would just create other issues. So it was on the stove top of the one thing or the or the toaster oven would be a wonderful existence. He didn't even have a microwave, the toaster oven would be in existence. So you know, we would send him home with a bunch of food that you know he wouldn't have to worry any come back every Sunday with his little paper bag full of Tupperware and go out with the next paper bag of Tupperware and it would just be that type of situation.

JJ: 18:06

David, would you say that you're basically you sent your dad sounds like he's on it. 78 and I know my in laws are 88 and 87. And they are they still drive? They're totally on it. So your dad really for your mom, he took as far as physical care that he was really in charge of that. That wasn't something that you all stepped into you were initially it was okay, financial wills, things like that. I'm an I'm gonna handle that estate type planning. But as far as the caregiving experience, hands on, your dad handled that with your mom.

Unknown: 18:35

Yeah, it was a great question, JJ. Because yes, and my mother had made a decision that that honor that she wanted to pass it on. Her mother, who lived till she was 98 had been in a nursing home back in the day. And if you think about way back in the day, like in the 60s nursing homes had a whole different connotation they do today. And my mother, you know, she was in Boston, my grandmother, my mom's mom. And so we were in Connecticut. So we'd go up and see her often. And when she passed, I think my mother sort of made the determination. She didn't want to die in that manner. So she stayed at home as long as she could, and actually till the end, and then dad brought in hospice near the end. So he had a nurse come in at the end, is what it was. And then he put a hospital bed in the extra in one of the bedrooms, and she moved into the hospital bed and they were there but he he was a caretaker and, you know, we had a surgeon up the street that would check in on him on a regular basis and make sure things were going right and her doctor would come by and so there were we created a care group, if you will, a support group around them. That would sort of you know, make sure everything was right. And I do recall the day my mom passed, we were told to come over because she was nearing the end and we all went up individually to say our goodbyes. I was upstairs and my mom was really struggling. So I knew was near the end and at that point, we had put in so think about 2002 We put up baby monitor in her in the room that she was in a dead kid the receiver clip to his belt. And his hearing wasn't the best in the world. But it vibrated. So we made sure he could feel it and things like that, because it really techie back in the early 2000s. And you know, I yell dad, I think it's so he's any drop the dishes, and my dad had a bad back, he had many back operations get hurt in the Navy, and he's literally crawling up the stairs as fast as he can to get to her. And then they were able to say their goodbyes. It was a it was a wonderful experience. And it was as a son watching a parent. And watching two parents actually really care for each other. It was so moving to me to see that warmth, that they were able to accomplish what they wanted to accomplish together.

JJ: 20:44

How long were your parents married? David?

Unknown: 20:46

51 years?

JJ: 20:47

Yeah, that's obvious. I was like they've been married a long time, not because of your age. Wow.

Natalie: 20:54

I love that. So you have, um, you have your mom passes. And your dad's living and your dad's basically coming over and you guys keep going on going on in the sense of, you know, it sounds like the caregiving that you're doing. And people be like, Oh, this is just like normal responsibilities of a son, I totally agree with you. Because it was very hard for us to see ourselves outside of what our daughter roles ours, because that's what we just thought we were supposed to do. You can call it whatever you want, but called, you know, dude, you're helping. And so how did it evolve because it evolves from your dad's coming over, he your lens picks him dinner for a whole week, I feel like I need to live closer to you. Because when parently is a good cook, I can't cook. He knows that. So again,

Unknown: 21:41

you can fold socks, I can fold socks, I can really

Natalie: 21:45

bring something to the table. I can do that. And so and then you're managing still the bills and things like that. And just general oversight. At what point did you see it start to transition? Like what does that start to feel like? Because at some point, you had started to have role reversals?

Unknown: 22:02

Yeah. And that after mom passed, a friend of mine who lost a parent and had his mom, he lost his dad and his mom was still living. He and I were talking one day, and Sam told me, he said, You're going to notice something now that your mom has passed. And I said, What's that, he said, You're going to notice a role reversal that goes on. And he said, you're going to become the parent, and he's going to become the child. And you're going to find at times, it's going to be very frustrating for you, because you're going to be saying things to your father, your parent, but they're for lack of a better word instructions that you would give to a child and how a child should operate. And so, you know, Dad was a trained accountant. So he was actually very good at what he did. And very smart man in so many ways. And but the more that we started having conversations, the more interactions, the more things that would go on after mom trance passed on, is I started to see exactly what Sam was talking about. You see this reversal that, you know, the my father, not that he was dependent upon us to survive, but he, we became more of his circle, because he no longer had his anchor in our mom and my mom, he now needed other anchors, and he always had all of his children. But, you know, my mom was his life partner. And he started to you started to see him in different ways. Lynn would go over every day, because she was not working at the time and, and she'd sit down and have a cup of tea and they'd have a cup of coffee, and they just sit in the living room. And they just have conversations similar to what my mother would do with him. They would just have conversations. And so we, we actually found that caring for him. And caring as I guess it's in the broadest sense of the word, but caring for him was more social with him was more social interactions with him. I would meet him every morning at church before I would go to work. We meet every morning for mass. And so we would sit there together and maths and go through maths. And then I would go to work and he would go home. And you know, Lynn would come over during the day and have tea and then we have movement. You know, we became much more active from a social perspective with him and I. And I think that was really great, because the thing that we were worried about was broken heart syndrome. We're worried about him missing moms so much that we would lose him fast. And so the fascinating thing is my parents were big travelers, they would travel Europe before he retired and they traveled the United States after he retired and they were planning to go on this cruise before mom got sick. It was dad was in the Navy in the Pacific and it was a 64 day cruise through the Pacific. And mom got sick and they didn't go clearly. And you know, a couple of years after mom died, we were talking to dad and I said you know you really got to go on the cruise. I said you love the ocean. You love to sit there on the boat. You love to do these things. And he said yeah, you said the best part about those cruises, David. They're all people like me. So what are you talking about? So they have money in time. So when you're gonna go on 64 days, you gotta have money in time. And he says that's really what it comes down to. So I mean, who could take 64 days off right and go on a cruise? I've been people that have time. And those are retired people. So it's just David,

Natalie: 25:06

I have to tell you that JJ was scheduled for 60 days. But she did, but she's also but she's also Kooker

Unknown: 25:22

that's another podcast. He's also good. So, anyways, we're gonna be doing that's a whole nother podcast.

Natalie: 25:32

Before we go, I have to take a break, because we're gonna come back to this. We'll be right back.

Unknown: 25:40

If you like confessions, we have another podcast. We'd love to recommend the happy healthy caregiver podcast with Elizabeth Miller as a fellow homecare network podcaster. We love how Elizabeth chatted up with family caregivers and dives into their caregiving and self care strategies. Just like us. Elizabeth believes that family caregivers are the experts in caregiving. Beyond the informative conversations, Elizabeth reveals the tried and true resources and practical self care tips that empower caregivers to prioritize their health and happiness. You can find the happy, healthy caregiver podcast wherever you download your favorite podcast, or go to the website at happy, healthy caregiver.com.

JJ: 26:27

Hey, everybody, we're here with David O'Leary. And we are talking about we're talking about his dad, Joe, and we are actually having a good time. But we're talking about how important it is that you continue social interaction. And that's something I think so frequently, nearly people miss.

Natalie: 26:43

We didn't we've never talked about that focus on the social like how David described it. And I think that's so true to try to ward off Broken heart syndrome. I think that's so I'm so glad you brought that up

JJ: 26:56

this loneliness. Imagine, you know, that type of loneliness. Honestly, my husband be like, thank the Lord. I mean, I don't have to listen to that.

Natalie: 27:05

But remember, David is David's mom and dad like to

JJ: 27:12

know, but really, I do and okay, I said, Dexter is out of town, you know right now, but it is kind of lonely. You're kind of it's you're kind of walking around talking to him. You're like, oh, wait, he's not here. You know. So yeah, that's social interaction. I think we missed that. You know, we didn't I don't think we ever talked about that. No,

Natalie: 27:29

we haven't. But he Okay. So here's the best part because this is it gets better, everybody because I read a little bit about this story. So David has told his dad, his his mom and dad were supposed to go on a cruise. And it was like a really long cruise like a 64. day cruise is what David you were mentioning. And you said to your dad, you should go. And then your dad said yes. And so then what happened? Because it gets better. Ready?

Unknown: 27:54

So he goes, and again, you got to think about this. This is in the early 2000s. So you know, he had a split bone with him and it didn't, wasn't gonna call from the ship. So he's gone for 64 days. And he comes back. And Lynn picks him up at the airport and brings him home and she says he's got this little twinkle in his eye. And my dad, you know, he's a Boston Irish guy, and he's got this little bro going and everything else. He started talking about this lady Ellis when she when Lynn was driving them home. And I said what are you talking about? And Lindsey? Oh, he met somebody. I said, No, he didn't know he did. This is my father. They were married for 51 years. I was 52 years. No, he, my mother, my father. He didn't he didn't find anybody. Oh, he met he met somebody. Linz, Linz Cummins. So we have him over for dinner. And we start talking and he starts talking about this lady Ellis statement. And he's going on and on with Alice and our kids are now you know, they're in their high school years. And he was on our cell phone plan because he didn't know what cell phones were. And so the boys would take and this is back when minutes counted in the cell phone plans are unlimited before everybody got you know, so the boys would take a cell phone and they'd go through all the numbers he called said, Papa, what are all these numbers to Ohio all about? You don't know what you're looking at the coast because he kept on calling Ellis on the cell phone call on his house phone caller on the cell phone. Does it look more stupid? I don't know. And so every Sunday he would come up with the boys would always check the sole property using a ball or minutes using a ball our minutes I love these kids. Dad, dad figured out how to wipe out the history. So we went to history. One day he comes over, the kids grabbed the phone, they flip it open and they look at and he looks at me as a gotcha. You'll never know again. So long story short, he met this lady Alice on the cruise. She was a widow. He was a widower. She had six children. She was put little polish lady. They became a neighbor of each other and they they fell in love on the cruise and her daughter happened to be the owner of the cruise company that my parents always used. Never knew that her daughter's husband at the time was the Chairman and CEO You know of Holland American cruise lines that was cruise line they were on. Never do that. So for the 64 days because dad was sitting down with Ellis and I will tell you the funny story about how they met because I'm sure that's what Natalie really wants. Yes. Is dad's first dinner on the cruise. He is a single guy on the cruise, he sits down at this table with other people instead of sitting by himself. And the way he tells the story, there were six little blue haired women, and one gigolo. And so he went up to the maitre d and said, I don't want to sit with that anymore. I don't want to sit by myself. So they said, not a problem just earlier isn't to put them by yourself. And then two nights later, the maitre d comes over and says, Mr. Larry, I have a nice lady who would like to join you for dinner, do you mind and he'd be gradually says, Fine, she sits down, he starts regaling this story again about the opening night, and she looks at him very seriously. And she said, I was one of those blue hairs. So she was at the table with him that night. And that's how they met. So for the rest of the cruise, they're inseparable these two Oh, from what I understand, the crew came out with like, they were not, but the crew came out with an engagement cake at the last night for the two of them and everything else. They just figured this is what was going to happen. And so they became inseparable. Long story short, Dad did decide he wanted to marry Alice, he gave Lynn the honor of a lifetime by having her go with him to pick out the engagement ring, called me with the honor of a lifetime and said, I want you to be my best man. To which I said, why I have two brothers ahead of me, you need to work through that first before you to be really smart. Anyways. So I'll tell them, I'm not dealing with it. And then the best story was they went out and they met with her priest out in Ohio. And the priest looked at the two and they were both Catholic. And two of them said this was really great, because want to do this thing. But they were 81 and 82 at the time. So now his dad's married and Coover. And so, you know, he saw how it worked out for me. So he thought he tried out just a second, second time around. So he, he looked at the, you know, the precise demos that are likely to wait six months to make sure this is really what you guys want to do and download demos at bottom. With all due respect at our age, you can't guarantee us we're going to be here in six months. So we're not going to wait six months, and you don't have to have the conversation with us about having more children, we've got more than enough at this point. Any of that, I think on the altar at their wedding, with children, spouses, grandchildren, great grandchildren, there were over 60 of us on the altar at the wedding for their ceremony. So he had 10 Fabulous years with Alice, Alice, unfortunately, he moved out to their house to her place, she didn't want to come to his place. So he moved out there. She unfortunately had a stroke, they moved into assisted living for the last, you know, for the last couple years of her life and a few years after his life. And they we are convinced that even if he had not married her if he had not met her, we would not have had him for all the additional years that we had him. So we are eternally grateful to Elvis, for taking him on at that point in their lives.

JJ: 33:06

How amazing. So first of all, I know, Mom had a friend after our dad passed away, and they were very clear that he was just a friend as a friend. But almost they were married almost 40 years. And so that was that was really, you know, that's kind of funny. I was like Mom, you know, because our parents were highschool sweethearts. And so that was hard. That was a big hard for me. But I know during that time, David it's interesting that you mentioned that because even when she called she would say oh this and oh, you know I got a sweater for Christmas and but I think it's so much about companionship and and he I guess for me I say what a blessing that he had you know your mom to love all those years and then someone after that, that could fill that hole that that that just I don't know brought me joy because everybody deserves that joy. So

Natalie: 33:53

I've loved that. I told you is a great story.

Unknown: 33:58

I'm going to fast forward a little bit ladies. Ellis pass Ellis passes. Dad has been complaining to me endlessly about the cold and kiss can't stand the cold it is now he's 91. And he just so you know, as the loving son that I am. Except my siblings wouldn't agree with that. I said, Well, why don't you move down here to South Carolina with us? You know, we built the house, it can handle walkers. We built it for retirement, it's got a room for you. It's got your you know, we could put a kitchenette in there. You don't have to bother anything, sit on the porch and watch the world and, and I learned something very valuable at that point. Because again, I think we all would do this as children, you'd want to do the right thing for your parents and want to help your parents and dad said to me something very powerful. And it kind of connected with me with a book that I was reading at the time. And Dad said, you know, I'm comfortable here. It's my surroundings now because he had been out there for over 10 years. At that point in time. He said, You know, it's my surroundings is what I know. And at that point in time, a guy that I was working with had given me his book to read called being bordel and it's a, it's an Indian author, I can't recall his name right now. But the gentleman that wrote the book, the premise of the book that I took away, it's all about aging and of life and things like that is that you need to look at the world through the eyes of the person, not through your eyes. And what I was trying to do with my dad was hearing his problem, I hate cold, let me solve his problem, I'm in warm, I can bring him down to warm and get done with that what I failed to see was through his lens, that would be another form of disruption for him. That would be breaking him out of a pattern that would be breaking him out of an environment that is comfortable in and inserting something that is not normal to him into that arrangement. And so I think that what I had was that was my aha moment, in that when I was trying to be the helpful son, in essence, I would, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have been helpful, because I wouldn't be solving the problem that frankly, would have been made my life easier, and might have made his life harder. And so as we go through this aging world, as you go through this experience, keep it in mind that looking at it through the eyes of the person who was aging, as opposed to your eyes and put yourself in their position. I think you'll you'll make different answers, you'll make different decisions. And I'm not saying the wrong decisions, I just think that you need to understand through whom it is you're trying to take care of. Now, you can't make every decision through their eyes. And I understand that, but in those situations, I think you got to, we have to continually remind ourselves to put ourselves in their position. Yeah.

JJ: 36:32

So how did his as far he so he stayed, which I love. He's there the cold weather? So how did his what are those years like when you guys are apart? What you know, distance wise? How does that how does that play out?

Unknown: 36:46

So this is really funny. So Ellis passes dad, and I talk on the phone all the time. He's 91. At this point in time, he and I decided we're going to embark upon a technology Jerry, he has an iPad, that he's been doing games and word puzzles and reads the newspaper and everything else is dead. We're going to teach you how to FaceTime. Now, the man retired from working in 1986. So as he said, It's before computers really came into that. He said they replaced me with computers, I was so smart. That's what they did. They're new to computer to statement. So I'm trying to teach a 91 year old through the phone, how to take his iPad and FaceTime. We were able to get him to understand how to do this. But I couldn't get one thing worked out with him. I'm gonna do this, it's gonna block the camera. Normally, when you hold it for FaceTime, you do something like this. Right? Right. Right, hold the thing up. Dad would do it this way. He would hold his iPad on his lap for the camera is shooting up this direction. You get no whenever he would call, I would get his jammies for the day, the top of his jammies when he called at night, and I'd get all the nose hairs. And I said Dad, you'd have trimmed the nose and you got are those are those Jamie's clean, have you done laundry recently, but he would never move the iPad to the direction that you could see his face, you always get the upbeat, oh, but he did learn it, he did learn how to how to do that thing, he would actually get text messages from the boys, they would actually text I'm not quite sure ever texted back. But he did get the text messages and he would FaceTime. And I think the advantage for me being states away at that point in time is as a long distance person is that even though I just saw his jammies and the upper part of his face, you know, his chin up, I actually could see him. And I could actually, you know, interact with him in a way that you knew that he wasn't, you know, in a bad place. I mean, he was cared for is a wonderful community that he lived in, and everything else, but it gave me a little bit added comfort around that I could actually see him and not just speak to him on the phone. So the walk distance thing became difficult, JJ, but I think we tried to utilize technology. And I will tell you if I can teach my dad at 91 To do this, anybody can teach their parents have to but that's the truth.

JJ: 39:01

I could believe that. Yep. David, we talked so much about this, you know, and I know there's so much more. But tell me, you know you because you and learn have been together all these years. Tell me how this has impacted your all's life. Like you've got a career. You guys have got kids, obviously your mother has passed and I think your boys are still in high school. Where does where are you? Like, was there ever a point in time when you said I wish this wasn't me? Like this is too much?

Unknown: 39:28

No, I never wished No. I mean, because we had my mother in law for many years. And my parents were not as many years but I never would look back and say, I wish I hadn't done this. Were their frustrations. Absolutely. Those frustrations were their disagreements with my mother in law and my dad. Sure. But you know, at the end of the day, in a quiet moment, the two of us wouldn't have traded any of this. But I think a bigger question that I think you raise JJ that we had an aha moment is I grew up in the insurance industry. Right. So I was comfortable with insurance and things like that. Well, one day after, you know, we had Lynn's mom for a number of years, my mom became sick. Lynn looked at me and she said, we're getting long term care insurance. I support him. Because we are getting it. Now we are getting a call Bob called Peter get long term care insurance. We're getting this. Yes, ma'am. So we actually did the planning. And we had done that we're in our 50s at the time, I think. And we had done the planning. And that was all fine. It was just one more thing to pick up along the way. But what became interesting to us is after my father passed, and after Lynn's mother passed, our boys who are now in their 30s looked at us and said, Okay, we saw what you did for a little Grammy and Papa, all those years, we saw what you needed to be involved in. Are you too prepared? Or what do we need to know? So it actually became, you know, in my experience in the insurance industry, this is this is the bond that creates intergenerational conversations. This is the thing that spawns family discussions. And I think that and we so we talked to our kids, and we told them what we've done anybody else and the funny thing was our oldest is a middle school principal. He was a teacher at the time and that was a principal. And he looked at us in his it's the Irishness and he said, you know, Mom, I don't make a lot of money. So you better have a pretty good policy because here's the deal, my first sign of journal, mom, first sign of drill, we're putting you in a home, I'm not going to be a really good home, if you're counting. If you're counting on me. It's not gonna be really nice, Dad, we got you covered. Don't worry about it. You can live with us. But Mom, we're putting you away.

Natalie: 41:41

Isn't it funny that the boys will take the boys and I think the girls would take the girls. I mean, because honestly, we've talked to numerous times like we're like, Oh, if we didn't care for our dad, because we know what the hell we've cared for our mom, our dad was the only guy in the house, even the dogs were girls. And so it was really much there was a lot of estrogen. I look I think wins out number but actually have a ton of faith and when I actually think yeah, when is really She is truly the neck who's really in charge.

Unknown: 42:16

world we just read space and men's world space in it.

Natalie: 42:20

I love that. We got to wrap it up because I'm like we got a little long, but that's okay. Because I don't care. Because we'll do after the confessions here in just a little bit. But I want to we got to have some sister questions, Jay, because Dave is just too good not to have sister questions as you go.

JJ: 42:34

So can I ask about Joe bear? No,

Natalie: 42:37

Joe monkey, Joe, Joe Mikey, I called the joke. Monkey. Sorry,

JJ: 42:41

Joe monkey.

Unknown: 42:43

So my dad always had my dad always had this Catholic guilt that he used to always tell me I put the monkey on your back, I put the monkey on your back during this whole process. You know, you have to take us on it, put the monkey on your back. So after he passed, and we were burying him in Connecticut, where my mom was, we took them back to our hometown. And there was the toy store that actually was still there when I was a kid. And so we went into the toy store and we bought a stuffed monkey. And then our oldest had a high school friend who knitted him the sweater, which we put the scarf on him because he was traveling with Joe. So we have Joe the monkey. And so it really became the thing with me when I was settling up everything with my parents, I would go I was still working somewhere in between houses. And Joe would travel with me between house would have this whole bag of all of his stuff I had to bring around to deal with and so Joe used always traveled with me. And then the Christmas after dad passed. Lynn had made me a box of Joe and so I have a shirt with Joe. I have you know, sweaters with Joe, I have half with Joe. So it's my reminder of my time with my dad that you know while he always said he put the monkey on my back, I always viewed as it's a badge of honor.

Natalie: 43:56

I absolutely love that. That makes me so happy.

Unknown: 43:59

I think it could be a business. If you ever did a business. You could do this for everybody. You know, they could have their own little characters for everybody. Oh, I

Natalie: 44:04

think so. I think so. When it's such a it's such an honor. It's a it's a it's a little bit of it's a little bit of a laugh, but it's really like it's one that I'm happy to carry. I just think it just shows how much you loved your dad. Alright, so my question is always I like the fun one. What is your favorite guilty pleasure? What is the one thing that you do for yourself?

Unknown: 44:29

She's done although I don't know if there's a I don't know if it's a guilty pleasure per se. I mean, I just don't mean I'm retired I have six Saturdays and a Sunday so I do whatever I never heard six Saturdays and Sunday. That's awesome. That's a that's a Joe is a that's a Joe isn't when you're retired. You have six Saturdays and a Sunday. So

JJ: 44:53

that's a shirt David.

Unknown: 44:55

I have a guilt. I don't know if I have a guilty pleasure right now. Talking to the church Talking to the two ladies on the screen would be my guilty. Oh, that's good. Do that.

Natalie: 45:05

I'm gonna tell you right now. That's there's a reason that you've been married a long time stands for the same just saying strange you Well, I mean she You've such a great relationship.

Unknown: 45:14

I'm still in training

Natalie: 45:17

my husband would say aren't we all?

Unknown: 45:21

Acknowledge your faults. It's better off an alarm when you have to acknowledge your deficiencies. That's

Natalie: 45:25

exactly right. David, thank you so much for being with us today. This has been so much fun and I like that Joe isms that you could do a book of Joe isms. You could have Joe merch you could have I like the you're right, JJ about the t shirt. Success. That is Sunday. I'm taking that with me. That feels southern to me. Honestly, that's like something I would say like you put an accent on and call it today. Guys, thanks so much for joining us today and stick around. We're going to after the confessions, it's going to be a lot of fun. Thanks so much. And we'll see you next time until we confess again. Well, friends, that's a wrap on this week's confession. Again, thank you so much for listening. But before you go, please take a moment to leave us a review and tell your friends about the confessions podcast. Don't forget to visit our website to sign up for our newsletter. You'll also find a video recording of all of our episodes on the confessions website and our YouTube channel. Don't worry, all the details are included in the show notes below. We'll

Unknown: 46:27

see you next Tuesday when we come together to confess again, till then take care of you.

Natalie: 46:36

Okay, let's talk disclaimers. You may be surprised to find out but we are not medical professionals and are not providing any medical advice. If you have any medical questions, we recommend that you talk with a medical professional of your choice. As always, my sisters and I at Confessions of a reluctant caregiver have taken care in selecting the speakers, but the opinions of our speakers are theirs alone. The views and opinions stated in this podcast are solely those of the contributors and not necessarily those of our distributors, or hosting company. This podcast is copyrighted and no part can be reproduced without the expressed written consent of the sisterhood of care LLC. Thank you for listening to The Confessions of a reluctant caregiver podcast.