From Cheeseheads to Caregivers: A Conversation with Lisa Hale

Lisa Hale shares her journey navigating a lifetime of caregiving responsibilities. From her early experiences as the oldest sibling in a single-parent household to later years caring for her mother following a stroke, Lisa recounts managing various care roles simultaneously while juggling her own life. Lisa shares about stepping into the roles of a stepmother to a son with special needs and a wife to a husband with multiple sclerosis, which she consciously chose. Despite sometimes wondering about her choice and longing for 'me time', Lisa remains proud and resilient. Lisa's story reflects the strength and love of a caregiver. She was the eldest sibling in a single-parent household and took on responsibilities early on. When her mother suffered a debilitating stroke, Lisa cared for her while juggling multiple roles and trying to maintain her own life. She also became a stepmother to a son with special needs and a wife to a husband diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, requiring unwavering attention and support.

Lisa's journey highlights the importance of mental health and counseling for caregivers. Seeking professional help provided a safe space to process emotions, gain coping strategies, and find support. Maintaining relationships, friendships, and connections is also crucial, even amidst challenges. 

About Lisa: 

Lisa Hale is a 57-year-old dedicated caregiver, wife to a man living with autism and MS, and stepmother to an adult stepson also diagnosed with Autism. She is professionally the PR and Marketing Specialist for Lakeland Care, Inc., a managed care program that collaborates with the Family Care Program in Wisconsin. Their mission is to provide support and services to the frail elderly and adults with physical, developmental, or intellectual disabilities.

Demonstrating her commitment to self-improvement and providing a better life for her family, Lisa returned to college at the age of 50. She successfully attained her Business Administration degree with a concentration in Marketing in December 2021.

Despite her busy schedule, Lisa loves crochet and reading, even though time for such hobbies has become a rarity. A geeky pursuits and television fan, she enjoys shows like Doctor Who, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Xena Warrior Princess.

Connect with Lisa:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100093621925611

Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-hale-23aa87a/

Other: www.lakelandcareinc.com, www.pyxhealth.com

Transcript

Natalie: 0:02

Hey guys, it's your favorite sisters with the Confessions of a reluctant caregiver podcast. On the show, you'll hear caregivers confessing the good, the bad, and the completely unexpected. You're guaranteed to relate the inspired lead with helpful tips and resources and of course, laugh. Now, let's get to today's confession

JJ: 0:32

it'd be like odd if my name was ZZ.

Natalie: 0:37

Oh, you'd be like ZZ Top.

JJ: 0:39

That is like probably way before listeners like they'd be like, Oh, then I'd have a beard. And that would be pretty cool.

Natalie: 0:45

You know what? And then you'd have a bit you have really long hair. And then you remember that. But are we?

JJ: 0:53

Sorry, this is a caregiver show.

Natalie: 0:55

Caregiver show. This is not ZZ Top. She's got. Morning. Okay. I'm sorry. All right. Let's get let's get for real because Lisa is like what is going on?

JJ: 1:10

It's been Okay, let's move on. We have a guest today. We do have showed up. I know. It is. And

Natalie: 1:17

you know where she's from?

JJ: 1:18

It's cold. There. It is cold.

Natalie: 1:21

She's got cheese, cheese, T's and C's head. Or wait, Lisa? Are you a cheese head?

Unknown: 1:28

Actually, I mean, I'll watch the Packers. Oh, this is gonna be so sacrilegious to say this. But I'm actually a Saints fan. More than I am a Packers fan. Oh, wow.

Natalie: 1:40

Every I mean, this is this is forever on the internet.

Unknown: 1:45

I know. We're gonna make this a real

JJ: 1:47

clear. Obviously, we're gonna have to hide your identity. We're not going to use laces name we

Natalie: 1:53

will be used elsewhere. Let's just

Unknown: 1:56

say this that come game day. I'm usually very low key if the Packers are playing the saints, because that's really dangerous

Natalie: 2:06

for each girl. Okay, so now everybody, we've just jumped right into Lisa. JJ. Let's talk a little bit about Lisa. And then we're going to keep on and we're not going to talk about the Patriots or patriots. The shades oops, at Green Bay in the Saints Church as you can go. It's number one. Okay.

JJ: 2:25

We have obviously we have Alisa here today with us. We have Alisa Hale today with us. And she has been a caregiver most of her life. And I had to read her bio, and then reread her bio to really let that sink in. Lisa is the eldest of three. That's why I like her the most. And she was raised in a single parent household. She managed the house and her siblings while her mom was away. Lisa then cared for her mother after a debilitating stroke. Now all this was done while she was getting married. And to care for a husband and a stepson both with care needs and debt. I mentioned that she went back to school at the same time. And she works. So all I can say is teach us was one because that's a lot going on. I mean, she's she's like a lot of people. So but yeah, you got I mean, so I totally understand. I'll jump in and I'll say, Okay, I understand single moms. And so same thing our parents both worked. So you got all those responsibilities with brothers, sisters, you know, all that. So that whatever. And then I mean, tell us a little bit about how you got into caregiving, like when you really stepped in full time, where did where did that? How did that get started? Okay, it's really

Unknown: 3:49

stepping in full time with caregiving if you have to go back to when I was when I was helping to take care of, you know, Heather and Bruce, because mom was working. I was I would get typical Gen X, you know, you hear about Gen X all the time we were the latchkey kids, we took care of ourselves. So, you know, I took care of myself, I took care of my brother and my sister, and then you know, mom would come home and whatever. But as, as the adulting began, and this is something I didn't mention in my bio, because it's kind of it's one of those things that I never really think about, but it was very, very hard on my mom. And there was at one point where she, she tried to take her life. So when she did that, I really had to step up. I was in college at the time, I had to take care of everybody had had was still I believe she was still in high school. So she was getting close to graduating. My brother was already in the Air Force so that he was he was taken care of but I you know, when she came out of the hospital, she came to Look with me, I had to make sure everything was was okay. I had to watch out for. So that was, I was in Wow. My 20s At that point, um, and then it just kept going, you know, it kept being my responsibility every time something would happen, you know, I would try to leave and go and do my life, but I would always come back and take care of mom. So wow, what's

Natalie: 5:27

your mom? Let me ask you this was your mom young, like young when she had you? When she was young? She was

Unknown: 5:34

like in she was 20 when she had me. Yeah. Yeah.

Natalie: 5:38

Our mom was a mom and dad got married young, right, literally the moment they graduated high school, and they had us at 1921 23. That's right, two years apart. So I wondered about that. Because you if your mom was 20, and you were the baby first purse boring because JJ and mom have a very, very close relationship. JJ was moms person. Moms, right? Because it was it was hard. It was hard to be young and raise a child. Yeah, exactly. Well, then she her person.

Unknown: 6:14

She became single. I was seven years old, I believe when my parents divorced. So you know, it was it was early on. I was seven. Bruce was six, and Heather was three or four. So yeah.

Natalie: 6:30

So your mom came and lived with you for a window of time you cared for her to get her back? Help her really kind of stand back up? You've I mean, it sounds like you were clearly a youth caregiver if your mom was working all the time. And I know we're going to talk about youth caregivers this year, because most people don't think about youth as caregivers and the impact that has on you. Do you think being a youth caregiver drove you into kind of your profession or intent? Like you've you've cared for other people?

Unknown: 7:01

It's, it's interesting, because I think that's what I think a lot of caregivers that do this, I don't want to say voluntarily because nobody is voluntary, family caregiver, you know, but who wholeheartedly put themselves into it, probably have that, quote unquote, need to be needed. And I know, this goes back to how I grew up, I know, this goes back to the fact that I was the one who mom relied on, you know, you're, you're my, you're my person, you're, you're my go to, you know, kind of thing. So, you know, I just have to have that need to be needed, which explains some of the choices that I've made in my life, I guess, including, you know, the marriage today. And taking on a Denver in my stepson. So

Natalie: 7:54

that's insightful, though, you know what I mean that, like, when you realize, like, where's my, what kind of drives us down this path? You know, people be like, Oh, is it a Jain? No, I mean, because we all kind of start here. Like, we all start at base and what we're taught as we grow up, that's interesting, that

JJ: 8:13

it doesn't sound like there's a fear there. You know, you just mentioned Dave and Denver. And when you married it into that, and we'll get to that, well, we'll get to that hold on. But there was there's not really a fear. It's just like, No, this is kind of a, that's just my norm. You know, I know I can handle it. So you just kind of go into it. And it's it is what it is. So yeah.

Unknown: 8:33

Although looking back

JJ: 8:36

2020 hindsight.

Unknown: 8:41

I don't know that I would have made the same choices. Really. I mean, I absolutely adore my husband and my son. But it was hard, y'all. It was hard.

Natalie: 8:51

Oh, hold that thought. Because I want to get with it was hard. But so your mom moves in with you right after you in your early 20s. And supporting her she comes out. So then you start living your life. You're just living your life. And then your mom moves your mom has your mom had a stroke? Is that right?

Unknown: 9:10

Yeah, she was 52. And she had a very debilitating stroke. Wow. At this point, she was she was married to my stepdad Phil, and things were going very well with her. But she had this debilitating stroke. And of course, you know, I was the one that was relied on to do a lot of the stuff because Philip just couldn't handle some of it. So I took care of that after the stroke too. So you know, I don't mean to it just seems like such a natural part of life when you're the eldest child or you know, a child who really cares that if something happens, you're going to pick up the ball and take care of things or at least that's how it's always been with me. Were you the closest

JJ: 9:59

as far as proximity like wherever your your brother and your sister

Unknown: 10:03

when the stroke happened, my sister lived in. Did she live in the same town at this point? Where did she live about 30 minutes away? I can't remember. It's been a couple of years and I've slept Yeah. But she lived relatively close. I lived in the same town. I was working at a radio station. And my stepdad called me. You know, I was getting ready to do the news. And he called me and told me and I had to completely leave, which was weird, because, you know, but, you know, so he called me I was, I guess I was the closest at that time. Yeah.

JJ: 10:41

And you said your brother had a military career. Now? Was he still in the military? Or was he close? Or?

Unknown: 10:46

I know, he was. He was, I believe out at this time, but he lives in a completely different state. Okay,

JJ: 10:53

so he's always farther away.

Natalie: 10:55

So that's interesting, because you've got your mom's married. We've got

JJ: 11:01

like, Phil, yeah.

Natalie: 11:02

But you did you move in with your mom. Did your mom move in with you? Did Phil move in? I mean, because I think you're apparently Phil was a package deal with your mom.

Unknown: 11:12

Actually, they didn't. I wasn't a what I would call the full time caregiver when she had her stroke. I mean, he was there, taking care of her and everything. But when it came to anything paperwork wise, anything organizing wise, anything like he just couldn't handle it. So I had to come in, and I had to make sure that everything was taken care of.

Natalie: 11:36

So tag teaming, kind of Yeah, he was

Unknown: 11:40

there for the physical. I was there for everything else.

Natalie: 11:42

Yeah. Okay. Did your mom so let me ask you this. Did your mom have like power of attorney, medical power of attorney? Did she have all those good documents done? These are always fun questions, you know? Yeah,

Unknown: 11:54

unfortunately, no, she didn't have any of that setup. So well.

Natalie: 11:58

And most people think, you know, because well, I'm young. I'm 52. Why would I have to think about that. And those are all the things that we always try to remind folks to make sure that you've got your paperwork in line, regardless. Because you never know when illness is gonna happen, or crisis is gonna happen. It doesn't. It's not like, hey, getting ready to do something dastardly. Could you pull yourself together?

Unknown: 12:21

Yeah. Let me tell you, that's actually one of the conversations that Dave and I have been having this year. Not to put too fine a point on it. But I mean, my God, I'm going to be 58. So you know, I'm getting up there, Dave is getting up there, we have to think about Denver. And so I was like, what happens if something happens to me, You have no idea how to get into my computer to find all the financial stuff to find out all this, we need to create documents for each other on what we take care of. So you know, he needs all my passwords. Because quite frankly, I'm the one who takes care of everything financially, and all the stuff. And he's never going to if something happened to me right now, right this moment, he would have no way of getting that information. So we this was actually something that we started talking about. At the beginning of this year, we even put a deadline on it, you know, I want you to have this document to me by this date. So we gave ourselves time to put it together. But we're putting together passwords, information, contact people, where my life insurance policies are all that into a file that he's going to have. And then he's getting one for me to wow,

JJ: 13:42

I'm gonna I'll jump in and tell you that is the same situation with our household and if something were to happen, my husband at when I sign a check, because we still use checks. The bank would say that if he signed a cheque with his signature, they would think it was fraudulent I sign his name. And if he again he if he sent it in on anything on a power of attorney if they say he signed his name, they'd be like this is a fraudulent document because he doesn't sign anything. He wouldn't probably know how to turn on my computer at this point. He just says like

Unknown: 14:13

me

JJ: 14:18

mine is different because it's a laptop that hooks in he'd be like, what is I don't even know what this is. You know he'd have my microphone on and you know my life but he'd be like, I don't know anything. Yeah. That is like a tip that is definitely that's

Natalie: 14:32

a tip See,

JJ: 14:32

ya know, you

Natalie: 14:33

know, I will say this though. I do know how to sign J J's name from signing it so many times as a child.

JJ: 14:42

Because she used to write excuses for school. She can write our mom's name too.

Natalie: 14:50

I was the middle child. Yeah. That is a tip to your children. Well,

JJ: 14:55

moving on, okay. That is a great thing. That was a great thing that I

Natalie: 15:01

like that. Okay, so you're you've helped your mom with her stroke. Now your mom is still this is your mom mask respectfully is your mom. Still with you?

Unknown: 15:10

No mama Pat mama passed away a few years ago from lung cancer. That's part of the reason why I'm back in Wisconsin and no longer in Louisiana because that's what helped me in Louisiana was mama. And so I moved back up to whisk Wisconsin's home with the heart Louisiana is where the family lived.

Natalie: 15:29

So I didn't know that I thought everybody was from Wisconsin. No, no. No wonder you like the saints forgiven. Perfect sense. I thought you were born to cheesehead was going to go into extensive amount of detail. But no, no,

Unknown: 15:46

I wasn't born to cheesehead. I became a cheesehead by choice.

Natalie: 15:51

It's, we're a dolphin family by marriage. But okay, so. So let's go into you. You're caring for your mom. And then you meet your husband? Well,

Unknown: 16:06

I met my husband when I was up here. And in Wisconsin. I had Mama was diagnosed with lung cancer after I mean, she had we gotten everything going on with the stroke. I had a job opportunity up here in Wisconsin. And I moved to Wisconsin, my sister took over as you know, primary, take care of make sure everything's taken care of my stepdad and my mom. I'm up in Wisconsin when she was diagnosed with lung cancer. And after a time, we realized that it wasn't going to be anything that could come to a happy ending. Yeah, so we, I knew that I would have to go home. And I eventually moved back from Wisconsin down to Louisiana. But when I was in Wisconsin is when I met Dave, my husband, and when we met and when it all started happening, that I was called about a job. They asked, Did I want to move back? And it just happened to be at the right time that, you know, mom was sick. All this was was taking care of or was happening, it just seemed to all fall in place. So I told Dave, I said, Well, I'm moving back to Louisiana. At this point. We've been dating for about nine months. And I said, it's up to you. I mean, you you can come with me if you want I you know. I didn't want to put pressure on him. He didn't want me to think that I was responsible for him in Denver. You know, he didn't want to, he didn't want to offer to come or he didn't want to say well, you can't go without me. I want to you know, because he was so worried about me being his caregiver, and Denver's caregiver. And so I was like, you can come if you want, and he did decide to move down with us. So,

Natalie: 18:01

so I hear you saying that you're nine months in so he had already had he had Denver, how old was Denver when you started?

Unknown: 18:10

Denver was I think seven or eight when I started dating. Dave and Denver was an extremely tiny, eight year old. He looked to be about four. Wow. Denver was was born premature. And he's also on the autism spectrum. And has ADHD, and everything that goes along with with that, and there's but he was the sweetest, most loving lowboy. And I fell in love with him just as much as I fell in love with his dad. So yeah, I was set. He was seven when I came into his life, and he's been my son since then. His mom, not put not to put any negativity towards her. But she's just not in the picture. She's She's nowhere around. So I've been his mom since he was seven. And I've taken care of him since then. Yeah. So

JJ: 19:11

you're managing his needs because that's a that's a tough that's a that it sounds like an interesting, fun little boy with all these needs. Especially ADHD. You're kind of like

Unknown: 19:23

some medical problems, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. Dave is also on the autism spectrum. He found out because of Denver. He had no idea. He just thought he was weird. But Dave's on the autism spectrum. And Dave also has multiple sclerosis. So he is he's disabled. And he works from home with an eBay business to keep themselves busy, busy, but

JJ: 19:52

so they go with you to Louisiana.

Unknown: 19:55

They come with me to Louisiana. So how

JJ: 19:57

long are you guys in Louis? See Anna, how do you know your mom, of course has been diagnosed? Are you living near her? Or Oh, yeah. Where's all that live? Where's everybody? Then

Unknown: 20:09

we move we moved to the same town she was in, okay. And it became me and my sister taking care of appointments doing everything because Phil just wasn't emotionally able to take care of a lot of this. But he did. And we we, as the sister team took care of mom and Phil together, so yeah. And I gotta give props to my sister. We are such a family of caregivers, y'all. Because after after mama passed, and there was nothing that was that was saying you have to stay in Louisiana decided to come back to Wisconsin. And then my stepdad, Phil got sick. And he had a stroke. And he ended up moving in with my sister. So I mean, she just, she she was incredible, y'all. My sister is just as much an important part of the story. As as, you know, my mom or my my stepdad or my husband or my son, she she stepped right in and moved him in and was his hair caregiver until the end of his life. So Wow. Wow. I love you. She's pretty awesome.

JJ: 21:24

Don't tell her about sisters. We won't we won't tell her. Don't

Natalie: 21:28

ever like that should be a real. I love my sister. But don't tell her Yeah, that.

JJ: 21:32

We always say that. Well, we say like, for example. Now I would say Natalie, you're my favorite. But don't tell Emily. On the phone with Emily. I say Emily, you're my favorite. But don't tell Natalie

Natalie: 21:42

always tell Jay she's my favorite older sister. Yeah. Sister. There can be only one.

Unknown: 21:50

I do that. I do that to Heather all the time. Heather. You're my favorite sister. I'm your only sister.

Natalie: 21:56

Well, I

JJ: 21:56

mean, facts are facts. Facts are facts. Exactly. So you go back to the land of cheese. So I'll throw that in. And so you tell me relax me.

Natalie: 22:07

Oh, my God. We're totally going

JJ: 22:10

downhill JJ. So we're trying to be serious. But caregiving, you have to laugh because it is a hot mess always. But to to go back. And you take Dave and deliver with you. So everybody, how are you married? At that point? Have you guys

Unknown: 22:21

we got married after we moved to Louisiana. It was funny. He never wanted to propose to me, because he never wanted to ask me to take on his disabilities and Denver special needs. He just would not do it. And he told me that he said I am never going to ask you to take this on. So we're living in Louisiana. We'd been there for a few months. And it's getting close to the end of the year. Y'all I am such a what's what's the word I'm looking for? form over function over form. rub some dirt on it. Just take care of things and that kind of person, you know, I don't tend to get all misty eyed and everything unless it's over a pet. Don't ask me once. But anyway. So he said he was never going to ask me to take that on. So as we're getting close to the end of the year, I'm realizing that I live with Dave in Denver. For the most part, I support them. I mean, he had his disability that supported himself and everything. But you know, we're all living there together and taking care of each other. And by God, I'm gonna get the tax credit for having this. Morning. We were getting closer to the end of the year. And I said, you know, Dave, this is ridiculous. We're together, we're gonna be together. We've made this commitment. So I proposed to him. And long story short, we ended up getting married so

Natalie: 24:02

and you got a tax credit? Not practical, you know, here's the thing. Yeah, you know, you take the benefits. I just got tired of being called Mrs. Zandi. Just like we're either getting married or not, and it took 11 years to make that happen. Yeah, that was a long deal to close. It's like an enterprise deal. And so but So, okay, so you move back. And then so you're, you're having life, right? And what's what's lifeflight for you, as I mean, because you're a caregiver. I

Unknown: 24:35

am a caregiver. I do want to say, we're Dave in Denver concern when we lived in Louisiana, Denver was young. And his is autism was really bad because there's a lot of comorbidities with it with the ADHD and the and the just fantasy land that he could live in. As as what happens and We had a problem when we were in Louisiana, where his meds were just not working, something was up and he had a at 12 years old, he had a psychotic break. So, you know, that was I think the toughest part was going through that, helping him through that. Finding the right medications, getting through all of that. And at the same time asking yourself, What am I doing? Why, why am I doing this? I have a choice. Why did I choose to do this, but I just kept working through it. You know, when you have a child that you love, or spouse that you love, you just keep working through those issues, to take care of what needs to be taken care of. Yeah. And so that was me, I was just like, we're going to take care of this, we're going to do this. And we ended up he got his, his meds straight, and everything. But there was some hospitalizations that were to that occurred for it. And it was some tough times. That's why I say sometimes, if I had, if I had a time machine, would I do it again? And probably I would, but I would probably make some changes to so that there was more support in those times. So

Natalie: 26:15

like, so that's a good point. Hey, ladies, I need to interrupt for just a second to share about the sisterhood membership. It's basically a sale every day. And the best part, it's free. Here's the details. We're partnering with our friends at benefit hub and other care partners to save you money. With over 200,000 participating companies across the US and abroad. You will find discounts at your favorite local stores, huge savings on vacations, amazing deals on home auto and supplemental insurances, and everything in between. Go to Confessions of a reluctant caregiver.com to sign up. And then definitely tell your friends about it. They can join to trust me, there's a discount for everyone. And don't forget, it's free. Okay, back to confessing. So, hindsight is 2020. Would you have made? Oh,

Unknown: 27:16

I think we probably would have, we probably would have started homeschooling him or moving him to the private school we found for him sooner. Public school was really hard on Denver. So I think we probably would have done that sooner if we'd gotten the chance. We might have done a few other things. If I had the knowledge, you know, before we got to the point where the break happened, because we leading up to you could see that the meds weren't working, that there was things that was going on. So, you know, if I could have stopped it before it happened, that would have been great.

JJ: 27:54

Were there were there supports out there that you just didn't know about where there always seems?

Unknown: 28:00

Yeah, always. And, you know, we had such a hard time we were having problems with Dan, he wasn't. He was, you know, going through these very difficult times he was living in this fantasy world. At one point, he said he was hearing voices. So we were all very and it was all because his meds were completely screwed up. And it eventually took him having to be in a hospital for a little while to get everything situated. There were supports, but it was really, really hard to find them. Dave's I was working at this time. So you know, I'm working, I'm trying to keep us afloat, Dave's at the house himself. He's doing all that he can to find the supports to find the help. And you know, he's trying to take care of Denver just as much as as I'm trying to take care of Denver and him. So yeah,

JJ: 28:52

that's it. And we will backtrack on that just a little bit and say, you are working and you have been working during this most of these episodes, because, say, we moved because I was just I in coincidence, I had a job offer. So we moved and then we moved back because I had a job offer. So when all this time you're working? Are you taking care of yourself? Like where is your mental state? Because you've had a there's a lot of like, you've just driving up and down the road between Louisiana and Wisconsin.

Unknown: 29:24

There was a lot of that

Natalie: 29:27

was not exactly close to each other. Yeah, no, the US map

JJ: 29:32

is your lack of where are you? Like, I mean, for me, I'd be like, I need to see a counselor or I need to be doing something. Are you taking care of yourself?

Unknown: 29:40

I mean, we're not Oh, yeah. And that's, that's one of the things if I could if I could ever, you know, write a book, if I sat down today and said, All right, we're gonna write a book on caregiving or on living this crazy life that I have once lived. I think the first thing thing that would be in that book would be, you know, like prolog. Don't do what I did do what I say would be take care of yourself, because it's such a cliche to hear this, it is such a cliche, but you can't pour from an empty cup. And it is so true. So I would say, definitely remember, I know we get overwhelmed. I know, we think that it can't be done without us. Or nobody else can do it the way I can. The thing is, is you've got to take care of yourself, you've got to do, you've got to find the support for yourself. I did not have it. And I went through some really, really tough times, until I finally got into some therapy, you know, to talk some of this out. And I still have to occasionally, you know, contact a therapist and say, let's have some chats because I know, I'm, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. I know what I'm supposed to do. But sometimes you just need that little extra help from somebody else going, you know what you're supposed to do, do it.

JJ: 31:09

I need to meet Tom, that's like, I just need to focus on me for a little bit. Yeah, right. Yeah, that's a fantastic

Natalie: 31:15

tip. That's a such a fantastic tip. You can even like to now I'm like you're over jotting down notes. Because the reality is, is that there's folks that say, okay, you can talk to your friends and family. But there's something about talking to somebody who is completely independent, who doesn't know anything else who is just neutral. And their sole focus is on you. And they're listening to for things because I think in the end lace, I think we all know the answer. It's inside of us. It's just coming to the resolution of like, oh, yeah, that's right. Oh, yeah, I do know this. There's no, I'm sure that you didn't get any aha moments in the sense of like, Oh, I didn't even know that. It's like, Oh, really? Yeah, I didn't really think about that, you know, and yeah, it's all inside. I think that counseling is so important. And there's so much stigma around mental health and getting assistance with that. And, you

Unknown: 32:07

know, and right now, I think we're in such a weird place in the US right now. Everybody knows how important it is to take care of your mental health. But do you know how hard it is to get in to see somebody or get into a therapist or anything right now. Denver is going through a tough time a year ago, his his cat, butterscotch cat that I adopted, and the minute it came in the house, he said, quote, her name is butterscotch, and she is mine. So it was it was she passed away a year ago. He is still grieving and still devastated over this. She was his cat his baby, you know, he took care of her. He did everything for her. And he's having a really hard time with grief really hard times. And me Of course, being the the functional rub some dirt on it person that I am I'm like, come on, you've got this. He doesn't need me going. Come on, you got this knocking off. He needs somebody who's actually going to help them through. So we've been trying to get him into a therapist for this. Three, four month waiting periods. Wow. Yeah. And it's ridiculous. I mean, if he needed needed help now because he was in an emergency situation. Oh, they'd find a way to to help him. But for something like this, where we're trying to be proactive on something that we can see. It's really hard to get in there's like a three or four month waiting period. And that just scares me. That scares me for the state of our mental health layer.

Natalie: 33:57

States. No, I can totally agree that's a that's a whole nother podcast or talking to you really is it really, really think about access and things like that. You mentioned grief. And I know that our friends that help text has is really about grief and they send these they're they're amazing, which I'll make mention to you after we're done. But we love Emma at help text because they're about grief. But you are such a take care of lots of people. But do you have grief? Would you say? That's

Unknown: 34:29

an interesting question, because this this past year 2023 I lost my dad and my stepdad within a month of each other. I lost your mama about seven years ago. Oh gosh, no, I can't say seven years ago because I've been here for four years maybe 10 years ago now, but anyway, it's been a bit I don't have time to allow myself that to grieve. So I mean, people have gotten on to me because I didn't allow myself time to grieve over both my my dad and my stepdad. Because there was other stuff that had to be done. But yeah, I'm not saying I don't grieve, I do. But I think I think it's in a different way. I think it's when I wake up at three o'clock in the morning, and have it there with me, then. Then I can allow myself the time degree, but otherwise, I can't really I don't have time. No, that sounds that sounds sounds real set. It's real. It sounds exactly the opposite of what I just said. Which is why my books prologue would be do what I tell you, not what I did. Okay. That's such a mom thing. Do what I say. But you've got it. Yeah. Yeah. I just there's not time for it.

JJ: 35:59

So I have a question. And it's a tutta. So I want to talk about

Unknown: 36:06

Dave. Dave. Okay.

JJ: 36:09

I know we talk a lot about marriage, and how caregiving impacts relationships. And that's, that's really that's a that's a big thing. And Natalie's talked about that a lot with Jason and his cancer diagnosis and how that changed their relationship to a certain extent now,

Natalie: 36:29

because oh, it changed the relationship.

JJ: 36:31

Do you changed, I was alive, but now I'm a caregiver cannot be both. So you married into and we've talked to people that you made that decision to marry into caregiving, you knew that was part of the relationship? What are the like? How has all that impacted your marriage? Do you feel like that your dynamic is different? Is there? What is that relationship? Like?

Unknown: 36:55

I think the dynamic is a little bit different. Because there are times when I can't be Lisa, the friend Lisa, the lover, Lisa, the wife, I have to be Lisa, the you will listen to me because this is for your help. You know, so there's that day, Dave has a tendency to try to push himself constantly he wants to do and do and do until the point where he can't anymore. And it makes me so flippin mad at him, I could just scream because when he gets to that point, you know, it's like, I don't want to stop, I don't want to do this, I just want to keep going, I want to do what I want to do. Then he knocks himself out for three or four or five days in a row where he can't do anything, because he's just used up all of his spoons with Ms. And there's nothing left to give. And then he's completely and totally useless for five days or whatever. That frustrates me, I will tell you that that it that frustrates me more than anything because he knows what he's doing. You know, it's like, if you just took easy on Monday, you wouldn't be here on Wednesday completely knocked out, you know, kind of thing. So, you know, there are those times when I'm like Dave, listen to me, you know, better. So, and it's hard to be, as I said, friend, lover wife when you're trying to be authoritarian caregiver. Dammit, I know what I'm talking about hush kind of thing, you know? Gosh,

Natalie: 38:33

that's interesting, because I think I think there's so many people who can relate to that, like, I can tell you in working with Jason and and mom, like, Mom, you cannot do that. And, and she just kind of looks off the other way like that she's not talking and you know, or can we do something different? And or she'll say yes, and then does it anyway. And we're like, Mom, this is not gonna, this is not going to hurt you. It's not going to help you. And I think there's frustration, and somebody said something to me yesterday, and I'd like to kind of test this against you. You've got a lot of obligation. Yeah, that breed any resentment? Any moments where there's resentment or regrets? Like, because you said before, you're like, that I'd make the same decision. That doesn't mean you don't love them. That doesn't mean you don't love them.

Unknown: 39:26

It's funny that you asked this because Dave and I have these conversations all the time. And I think that's one of the things that has kept us. So working so well together is that I am completely and totally honest with him about things. So when I'm frustrated, when I think Denver's not progressing as well as he should be, or if I'm sitting here thinking, I'm going to have an adult son living with me for the rest of my life. You know, will he ever be able to take care of himself? You know, when I'm having these different thoughts? Yeah, there's some regret sometimes because you know, I would love to be able to just to take off and go on a trip or go do something. Take Dave, let's see what we can get into trouble with, you know, typical, typical things you want to do when you're married, you know, but can I? Can I go away for a week? No, I can't trust him for alone by himself for a week, for one day, maybe for a week. I'm not sure about that. So, you know, I have regrets like that. There are times when I'll be sitting there. We're watching TV at night. And I look over at Dave and I'll just be looking at him. And he's like, why are you looking at me? It's like, because I'm sitting here thinking, what would my life had been? Like? Have we not gotten married? Had we had you not come into my life? So you know, I do have those thoughts. But the thing is, is I'm not angry about it. These are the choices that I made. So you know, I do have the thoughts. I do have the the what ifs, of course, you're never gonna know what the what ifs? You know, and so you do the best with what you have. And so yeah, there are times when I'm like, you know, just once, I would like to be the one that is that is worried about and pampered over and stuff. But for the most part, no.

Natalie: 41:28

I agree with that. I think there's so many people, here's the thing, I think those thoughts are completely normal. The fact that you all have a conversation and nobody feels threatened by it. And or insecure, maybe like, because I do think you have to get it out. I'm a big believer in getting the bad stuff out. Like if I'm thinking this. And that's hard. Now, mind you, how long have you guys been married now? Or been together? Even? Oh, there's a lot of pressure.

Unknown: 41:58

There is a lot of pressure because I'm, as I said function over form. I know we got married on the 22nd of December, but can't tell you which year we've been. We've been together.

Natalie: 42:11

10 years. 13 years now. Perfect. I was going with when you said how long it's been since your mom passed? Because if Yeah, I was listening at the beginning. I was like, Yeah, well, you moved to Louisiana? Yeah.

Unknown: 42:22

Yeah. It's been it's been about 13. I think we met in 2011. So yeah, yeah.

Natalie: 42:27

I think that what's different, what feels a little different is you from other folks we've talked to because this is your first like, step mom for someone have a disability your spouse has has a disability. And that you went into it knowingly. Yes. You went into it knowingly. And so some people can be hateful, and say, Well, you went into it knowingly. I don't know what you'd expect different. And the reality is, don't be a bagel. Yeah. Guess why you still get to have all the thoughts and feelings and emotions and you can still be pissed every now and then. Yeah.

Unknown: 42:59

I mean, it's, I went into it willingly. But that doesn't mean that when I went into it, I knew what things were going to look like in 1015 years. Because I didn't, I thought that maybe Denver was going to be like his dad and be able to be independent. And right now I've got a 22 year old adult son who is not independent, and I don't know when he will be. I mean, I'm trying to teach him but he's gonna have to have somebody taking care of his finances, you know, even after we pass because I don't think he can really handle that. We still have problems with him. Counting. Every penny diamond quarter is a full dollar and it's like no, paper money. He's fine with coins. He's not gonna get sad track. What was I talking about?

Natalie: 43:54

I think it's fun. Honestly. Well, no, but I think that's important because now you're in a different phase of your life. So you're, we were talking about relationship. And speaking of relationships, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go a different direction. Tell me about the other relationships in your life because I hear all the people you care for, like indigent, we talked about, you know, what are the things that you do to try to preserve your sanity? I don't even say mental health. What like, let's go with sanity. Have friends, have hobbies? Have things that you do just for yourself that you're super selfish about which I support.

Unknown: 44:28

I love that you support it. I have a best friend that it doesn't matter what time of the day night, just in the middle of the day. I can text and we have you know, great conversations. So you know, it helps to have him in my life. Yeah, um, I do have hobbies, it. I haven't really done my hobbies for a while because I've been extremely, extremely busy and just very, the hobbies it's like I have to put effort into the real slug sometimes. I do have i It's funny, Todd, my best friend will say that I am the biggest list maker he's ever met because I make lists for everything and do a list and then you have to you have to remake the list because you can't have more than two scratches off your list.

Natalie: 45:22

100% Okay,

Unknown: 45:26

then you have to have a list of your lists.

JJ: 45:29

You got to compile it. And there's so much joy when you check that off, like I understand.

Unknown: 45:34

So I've got a list of my lists. And in the list of my list, there is a list of my hobbies, and I have about 37 hobbies. The thing is, is do I do any of them? I just have 37 hobbies. The

Natalie: 45:51

first step is naming them the first step because my hobbies are working is what most people would say I'm like, I love to work. Why would I do something else? My younger sister, Emily will say, Natalie, don't you like doing something else? I'm like, I love to work. And then she's like, what else? And I'm like, Why do podcasting? I do that in my free time. And she goes that feels like

Unknown: 46:16

a full bagel. So yeah, you sound You sound just like my boss Misty. Her hobby is work. You know, that's what she says work is my hobby. That's what I like to do.

Natalie: 46:27

Oh my gosh, no. Okay, so I'm gonna tell you j we could probably talk to ever but we're at the point which is our favorite part. DDD I feel like we need like some music or I can sing but I'm not going to. Because I don't have anything top of mind to really sing that will really come out. Well. It's time for Sister questions. Ready? Okay. Okay. I love sister questions. J. Age before beauty.

JJ: 46:57

Even respond. Okay, so I have a little insight into favorite TV shows. Tell us what TV shows are an idea of I have a comment about why those are. But tell me tell us about your favorite TV show. I love a couple of them. Okay,

Unknown: 47:22

so, straight off the top of the head. I'm gonna give you four. Okay, maybe four favorite TV shows. Doctor Who? Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Xena Warrior Princess and The Golden Girls. Oh. The Golden Girls pitcher in 1932. Exactly. Picture it. Cecily. 99.

JJ: 47:46

When I read those, I was like, that's because there are superheroes in there. Especially the Golden Girls. I mean, there it is. I really think that you can I think that you are all of the suitcase.

Natalie: 48:02

So I'm gonna net it out. All right, Jason, this is funny because now everybody has to watch this on YouTube so everybody can see because you can't get you got to really get a picture of all of us at this point. But

Unknown: 48:14

okay, as you can see over my shoulder exactly the

Natalie: 48:19

but which golden girl Do you believe Lisa is j because I know which one she is in my mind. Which which golden girl? Oh my gosh. She can't remember the names. No, no, I totally.

JJ: 48:30

I mean, she's somewhat irreverent. She's just like, whatever.

Natalie: 48:34

Dorothy she she's the oldest she she keeps Blanche but but she's

JJ: 48:40

a little bland Jenner that's what I was thinking.

Natalie: 48:42

I was just like out ever thinner.

JJ: 48:43

I think she's got a little Blanche and I think she could be both but I was gonna go Blanche but she does have some Dorothy because she's got

Natalie: 48:49

Dorothy and her cuz she's the oldest she's in charge. She's always she's, she's making sure everybody's taken care of. Yeah, and and so she's

JJ: 48:57

like, get it in gear. That is I don't have time for this. Just move on. Okay, please. A little saucy. Okay, so who do

Natalie: 49:03

you identify with Rose?

Unknown: 49:05

Oh, seriously, seriously expected

Natalie: 49:11

and why?

Unknown: 49:12

Because she is so ditzy and innocent and and just things fly over her head. And she she's not the smartest bulb in the bunch. And so I think Todd would say that I am a rose that I'm a little bit ditzy and but my other friends would say that I'm a blanch

JJ: 49:38

See, I was initially I was going straight to Blanche because I was like she's just the sauce. I would never say that you're ditzy.

Natalie: 49:47

I'm like the structure is what threw me like is the list. The

Unknown: 49:51

thing is is is I think Todd knows a different side of me because I when I'm around Todd, I don't have to be the completely on point guy. Getting everything taken care of. So he gets to see the the, the, this I have nothing, I can't say anything or I'll start telling my story and it'll be a long drawn out story and they're like, Could you please get to the point of this story? Well, I will eventually but you know, tell the things. I

Natalie: 50:22

love that. Like, okay, so okay, this is the 62nd round because okay, my time is running out. So what? Because I feel like I know it. But now what is your favorite guilty pleasure that you do just for you?

Unknown: 50:40

That I do just for me? Hmm.

Natalie: 50:42

Yeah. You don't have to share. You don't have to tell

JJ: 50:44

you can? You can do. Okay.

Unknown: 50:48

If I have a really good book, and can find a place to hide and read, that's excellent. I don't get to do that very often. If it's something where I still have to be around people. A good bottle of wine. Fair enough.

Natalie: 51:06

And that is where we will leave you guys. Lisa, thank you so much for coming on. We absolutely love you is this is so fantastic. And I think so much great nuggets of wisdom that you have shared and we just love you. You're clearly a sister. I am. Alright guys. Well, thanks so much for listening in. We appreciate you and until the next time we confess again. See you soon guys. Thanks. Bye. Well, friends, that's a wrap on this week's confession. Again, thank you so much for listening. But before you go, please take a moment to leave us a review and tell your friends about the confessions podcast. Don't forget to visit our website to sign up for our newsletter. You'll also find the video recording of all of our episodes on the confessions website and our YouTube channel. Don't worry, all the details are included in the show notes below. We'll see you next Tuesday when we come together to confess again, till then take care of you. Okay, let's talk disclaimers. You may be surprised to find out, but we are not medical professionals and are not providing any medical advice. If you have any medical questions, we recommend that you talk with a medical professional of your choice. As always, my sister's night at Confessions of a reluctant caregiver have taken care in selecting the speakers, but the opinions of our speakers are theirs alone. The views and opinions stated in this podcast are solely those of the contributors and not necessarily those of our distributors, or hosting company. This podcast is copyrighted and no part can be reproduced without the expressed written consent of the sisterhood of care LLC. Thank you for listening to The Confessions of a reluctant caregiver podcast.